Author Topic: Commonwealth Culture  (Read 181 times)

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Offline BC_cheque

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Commonwealth Culture
« on: March 09, 2021, 12:38:01 am »
With H&M poised to burn the monarchy on their way out and our GG bringing all kinds of disgrace to the role, the discussion of Canada's role in the commonwealth is once again all over the place.

This may come as a surprise since I'm a **** lefty, but I'm actually a monarchist.  Just wanting to know what you guys think.

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Offline the_squid

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Re: Commonwealth Culture
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2021, 01:51:00 am »
The idea that someone should rule over others due to being born into it is abhorrent and immoral.  It’s an affront to all things democratic.   

Anyone who believes in equality should also believe that no one was born to rule over others, even in a ceremonial fashion.  To think otherwise is the worst hypocrisy.

Canada should have ditched the monarchy long ago.

Prince Andrew used his position, wealth and influence to commit atrocities against young women.  The latest princess is being vilified for being a different skin colour as the royal douchebags. 
« Last Edit: March 09, 2021, 02:01:34 am by the_squid »
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Commonwealth Culture
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2021, 11:06:23 am »
The monarchy is nothing but a tradition, and birthright is only one aspect of it.  There are many others.

Prince Andrew has been relegated.  There is nothing the RF can do, the matter is criminal and not up the RF to do anything about it.

As for H&M, they made a lot of misleading statements.  Archie can have the HRH title and all the perks that go with it when Prince Charles becomes monarch.  There are specific rules about grandchildren of the monarch having titles.

Also, I believe conversations were had about the colour of Archie's skin and I believe there was animosity in the palace with the Sussexes but I don't think it necessarily follows that the animosity was because of skin colour.  If there was, Queen would not have even agreed to the wedding, would not have spent $40 million on it and the palace wouldn't publicly release photos of the Queen with the couple and Meghan's mother.

H&M sound very angry that the palace didn't allow them to keep their roles part-time and they know their only future is through their brand.  Harry says he hopes to mend the relationships and that he has so much respect for his grandmother but his actions show a very different story.  I don't really trust their motives.

As for Canada, unlike all the other commonwealth nations, we have this specific tie to the Crown because our national identity is one of loyalists who stood and fought for the crown when the colonies that went on to become the USA were trying to conquer us. 

Quebec notwithstanding of course, but the crown plays an existential component of the country of Canada.  Personally, I'm proud of that tie and would like to keep it that way.

Offline the_squid

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Re: Commonwealth Culture
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2021, 12:48:38 pm »
The monarchy is nothing but a tradition, and birthright is only one aspect of it.  There are many others.

Prince Andrew has been relegated.  There is nothing the RF can do, the matter is criminal and not up the RF to do anything about it.

As for H&M, they made a lot of misleading statements.  Archie can have the HRH title and all the perks that go with it when Prince Charles becomes monarch.  There are specific rules about grandchildren of the monarch having titles.

Also, I believe conversations were had about the colour of Archie's skin and I believe there was animosity in the palace with the Sussexes but I don't think it necessarily follows that the animosity was because of skin colour.  If there was, Queen would not have even agreed to the wedding, would not have spent $40 million on it and the palace wouldn't publicly release photos of the Queen with the couple and Meghan's mother.

H&M sound very angry that the palace didn't allow them to keep their roles part-time and they know their only future is through their brand.  Harry says he hopes to mend the relationships and that he has so much respect for his grandmother but his actions show a very different story.  I don't really trust their motives.

As for Canada, unlike all the other commonwealth nations, we have this specific tie to the Crown because our national identity is one of loyalists who stood and fought for the crown when the colonies that went on to become the USA were trying to conquer us. 

Quebec notwithstanding of course, but the crown plays an existential component of the country of Canada.  Personally, I'm proud of that tie and would like to keep it that way.

You brush off the “birthright to rule” issue as if that wasn’t a central component of any monarchy.  It is absolutely antithetical to democracy and to equality of all people.

You’re for equality and yet you hold that someone should have a right to rule over someone because of the family they were born into.  I find that, not just hypocritical, but an immoral stance.

We’ve been lucky to have Queen E II as our queen for many decades, as far as that goes.  What if the Monarch was a piece of crap?  Could easily happen.  Hell, we nearly had a king who was a Nazi sympathizer!!   He abdicated the throne, not because of his support for Hitler, but because marrying the wrong woman was going to be immoral and reflect poorly on the royal family!  LOL 

 And what did they do with him?  Arrest him?  Treat him like the disgusting traitor that he was?  Nope...   Shuffled him off to live a life of luxury.

https://www.biography.com/news/edward-viii-wallis-simpson-nazi-sympathizers-hitler


Offline JMT

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Re: Commonwealth Culture
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2021, 03:22:09 pm »
Professor Legasse has an interesting proposal. Due to the letters of patent is within the power of Parliament to make the GG a full regent. That means that they would exercise all power and authority of the Queen, making Canada a true Crowned Republic, and avoiding messy fights over official languages and equalization that would inevitably come out of the quest to get 10 provinces and Ottawa to agree on a change. He and I had an interesting chat on one aspect (okay, he had a chat, and I listened):

https://twitter.com/jmt_18325/status/1369383222153510916?s=20

Here is the full article:

https://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazines/january-2020/monarchys-rights-privileges-and-symbols-in-canada-can-be-changed/

Offline JMT

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Re: Commonwealth Culture
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2021, 03:24:05 pm »

Canada should have ditched the monarchy long ago.
 

The problem with that, is to change the Office of Queen (as well as the Office of the Governor General), you need the consent of all 10 provinces and Ottawa. That means they have to agree on a replacement. That isn't happening with Canada coming out the other side intact.

Offline JMT

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Re: Commonwealth Culture
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2021, 03:28:02 pm »
It's also important to point out that in the modern context, there's no birthright to rule in a constitutional monarchy. If there were, this conversation would be moot.

If you go down the list of the best countries in the world, most of them are constitutional monarchies. That say something, I'd say.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Commonwealth Culture
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2021, 06:16:37 pm »
The Queen and the GG don't really have much power anymore, by convention she typically acts on the advice of the PM.  The Queen herself does nothing, the GG does everything.  But I think the position of GG is needed as a check on the power of a PM who could potentially go bonkers.

If the Queen were abolished we would just have the GG in her stead.  I don't really have any use for the royals, but I also don't mind the tradition of the crown.

I think the Quebecois would be very happy to get rid of the british monarchy.  It might be good on the unity front because they have never accepted the fact that the Brits defeated the French in the Seven Years War.  Though I don't think it would stop the Quebecois from complaining about something.  I wonder if Quebec would sign the constitution in exchange for getting rid of the monarchy.

The whole thing with Meghan and Harry is just drama.  She should have known what she signed up for.  There's 2 sides to every story.  I really don't like them or the rest of the royals so i don't feel bad for any of them.  I do like Prince George in his knee-high socks though.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Commonwealth Culture
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2021, 07:42:57 pm »
Constitutional monarchies are consistently ranked as the best places to live. I really don't know what is to be gained by having a politicized head of state. If it is another appointee, we might as well leave it the way it is. If it is an elected position, what powers do you give it? I really like the idea of a head of state who won't be running for re election and who's only duty is to the Constitution. Our neighbours to the south are a really poor advertisement for the idea of a political head of state.
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Offline kimmy

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Re: Commonwealth Culture
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2021, 11:29:26 pm »
Constitutional monarchies are consistently ranked as the best places to live. I really don't know what is to be gained by having a politicized head of state. If it is another appointee, we might as well leave it the way it is. If it is an elected position, what powers do you give it? I really like the idea of a head of state who won't be running for re election and who's only duty is to the Constitution. Our neighbours to the south are a really poor advertisement for the idea of a political head of state.

I used to feel that the monarchy is a bullshit institution that could be done away with and not missed.  I began to reconsider during the G.W. Bush vs Al Gore Jr election legal proceedings in Florida in 2000.  It made me question the idea to which we could trust institutions filled with appointees, especially when those appointees are installed by partisans.  In this past US election, we saw endless court challenges ruled on by judges that were in many cases installed by the plaintiff.  Happily the rule of law prevailed, but I think all of us were to some degree concerned with what might happen if Trump-appointed judges had been as biased as some Republicans had hoped they might be.

The monarchy and their representatives here are independent and unaccountable, and sometimes that's a feature and not a bug.  Making it a hereditary position is silly and arbitrary, but it removes the question of partisanship from the selection process.

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Offline kimmy

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Re: Commonwealth Culture
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2021, 11:41:47 pm »
As for the Meghan and Harry stuff...  at a time when we're dealing with covid-19 and all the fallout from that, it's hard to give a **** about an actual Princess whining about how hard royal life is.

And I think it is somewhat remarkable to see that it's bigger news that there might be a racist in the royal family than that there's an actual sex predator in the royal family.

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Offline eyeball

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Re: Commonwealth Culture
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2021, 11:44:50 pm »
With H&M poised to burn the monarchy on their way out and our GG bringing all kinds of disgrace to the role, the discussion of Canada's role in the commonwealth is once again all over the place.

This may come as a surprise since I'm a **** lefty, but I'm actually a monarchist.  Just wanting to know what you guys think.
I'd be more supportive if the monarchy did what I think should be it's proper job which is make the government's they saddled us with do their's.  I keep hearing about how important the monarchy is when it comes to protecting and guarding our institutions for us but what about protecting us royal subjects FROM those same institutions?  We can't seem to make a dent in this so maybe someone higher up the food chain or that's above our government's pay grade can.

That said, I was surprised to find that many 1st Nation's are in no hurry to see the monarchy disappear.  Apparently it has something to do with regarding Canada's government as not being where the actual buck stops when it comes to sovereignty.     

Offline wilber

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Re: Commonwealth Culture
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2021, 10:58:59 am »


That said, I was surprised to find that many 1st Nation's are in no hurry to see the monarchy disappear.  Apparently it has something to do with regarding Canada's government as not being where the actual buck stops when it comes to sovereignty.   


Because they are afraid a new republic would not honour agreements made by the Crown.
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Offline eyeball

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Re: Commonwealth Culture
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2021, 08:40:40 pm »


Because they are afraid a new republic would not honour agreements made by the Crown.
I'd be afraid too but that said these are increasingly powerful times for native people. The amount of 1st Nation's opportunity I see on the coast where I live especially in commercial fishing right now is staggering. All that really stands in the way of it is the capacity but there's a few very obviously very successful young fishermen that are attracting notice of their peers and a path to real success. It was a snap for DFO to sink most of the non-native salmon industry when caving to America during the Pacific Salmon War but if push comes to shove again caving to the US will be whole different kettle of fish when it comes to keeping native fishermen off the water. Ironically it'll probably be the Crown turning to the Monarchy for help.