Author Topic: Child-killer transfered to "healing lodge".  (Read 454 times)

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Offline kimmy

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Child-killer transfered to "healing lodge".
« on: September 27, 2018, 12:50:41 am »
It sounds as if this particular child-killer is getting a sweet deal because she's aboriginal.

https://nationalpost.com/news/local-news/tori-stafford-killer-terri-lynne-mcclintic-sent-to-healing-lodge-toris-family-says/wcm/9ae7caf7-a01f-43ba-a66d-346b9a44e091

Honestly, this doesn't sit well with me.  I understand the complaint that politicians are stoking public outrage over this, but I think the public's anger at this deserves to be heard. PM Trudeau was talking about the evils of populism in response to Conservative questions on this today.  Populism tends to gain traction on issues where the public feels they aren't being heard, or that politicians are out of touch and unresponsive to their feelings and concerns.  Wake da fuk up, Justin: sending a child murderer to a "healing lodge" is jet-fuel for populism.


 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Child-killer transfered to "healing lodge".
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2018, 01:08:17 am »
Far be it we learn a lesson from Norway, with a very low incarceration rate, and extremely low recidivism rate. Halden prison is a perfect example of effective correctional system. I know that conservatives are not interested in correction, they are old testament eye for an eye justice. Feelings are so much more important than science in their eyes.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Child-killer transfered to "healing lodge".
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2018, 01:38:01 am »
So that's a yes on putting child-killers in "healing houses"?

 -k
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: Child-killer transfered to "healing lodge".
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2018, 04:53:25 am »
Far be it we learn a lesson from Norway, with a very low incarceration rate, and extremely low recidivism rate. Halden prison is a perfect example of effective correctional system. I know that conservatives are not interested in correction, they are old testament eye for an eye justice. Feelings are so much more important than science in their eyes.

It was explained to me that incarceration has 4 purposes:

- Making the public feel that the system works, ie. administers justice
- Protecting the public from the criminal
- Dissuading people from committing crimes
- Correction

I have doubts this person will ever get parole, and as such it's not clear to me that the last point is a factor here.  Also, apparently if you request this approach they don't check your background.  I read that somewhere, but can't find it now.  This article says that McClintic's background isn't clear:
https://ipolitics.ca/2018/09/26/pm-rapped-over-transfer-of-girls-killer-to-healing-lodge/

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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Child-killer transfered to "healing lodge".
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2018, 08:28:46 am »
Raping and murdering children should ensure you never see the light of day again.   This isn’t the type of crime where you should be getting trips to a “healing lodge”.   

The government’s defence of this was asinine.  They will walk it back once they see how the wind is blowing on this issue, but it shows how out of touch they are on this.  It’s not an issue where they can point to the Conservative and shout about how cruel they are.  This woman is not worthy of sympathy. 
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Offline JMT

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Re: Child-killer transfered to "healing lodge".
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2018, 08:32:21 am »
So that's a yes on putting child-killers in "healing houses"?

 -k

For sure that’s what he said.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Child-killer transfered to "healing lodge".
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2018, 08:48:43 am »
So that's a yes on putting child-killers in "healing houses"?

No, that's a yes to using evidence to guide our decisions instead of emotion. Often we do not have the evidence ourselves and need to rely on the professionals to provide that evidence, and not gravitate towards those who manufacture "evidence" to pull on our emotions; something we see happening all the time.

It was explained to me that incarceration has 4 purposes:

- Making the public feel that the system works, ie. administers justice
- Protecting the public from the criminal
- Dissuading people from committing crimes
- Correction

A healing lodge is incarceration, and does protect the public from the criminal.

Incarceration is the dissuasion, no matter how much your feeling want to see someone tortured. How often do we get responses from otherwise rational people, that they want someone to go to jail so they can be **** by Bubba (we saw that in this form just the other day concerning Cosby, and even with those I disagree with here I would say they are far from the irrational idiots that inhabit most of the Internet).

I think correction is already covered off.

That just leaves public relations. I go back to a supposed rational public that wants a system that works, not one that tugs on their emotional strings.

Offline Goddess

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Re: Child-killer transfered to "healing lodge".
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2018, 09:29:33 am »


That just leaves public relations. I go back to a supposed rational public that wants a system that works, not one that tugs on their emotional strings.

The problem is that the public gets emotional when children are **** and killed?  Mmmmokay.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Child-killer transfered to "healing lodge".
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2018, 09:32:22 am »
The problem is that the public gets emotional when children are **** and killed?  Mmmmokay.

Agreed, that is why we have a criminal court system and not lynch squads.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Child-killer transfered to "healing lodge".
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2018, 10:02:43 am »
It was explained to me that incarceration has 4 purposes:

- Making the public feel that the system works, ie. administers justice
- Protecting the public from the criminal
- Dissuading people from committing crimes
- Correction

I have doubts this person will ever get parole, and as such it's not clear to me that the last point is a factor here. 

Point one is key here.  People need to have confidence in the justice system, and to maintain that confidence they need to see that it obtains outcomes that are appropriate to the situation.  I believe that the overwhelming majority of people will feel that being transferred to a "healing lodge" isn't an appropriate outcome for someone as awful as Ms McClintic.


 -k
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Child-killer transfered to "healing lodge".
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2018, 11:24:03 am »
Point one is key here.  People need to have confidence in the justice system, and to maintain that confidence they need to see that it obtains outcomes that are appropriate to the situation.  I believe that the overwhelming majority of people will feel that being transferred to a "healing lodge" isn't an appropriate outcome for someone as awful as Ms McClintic.

Canadian prisons for women tend to be pretty comfortable compared to their male counterparts. Remember the cottage style residences where Karla Homolka was often seen with her girlfriend prior to release? The mens prisons, by contrast, can be pretty horrific -- or not....

https://edmontonsun.com/2016/03/06/calgary-mom-outraged-daughters-killer-living-resort-life-at-bc-prison/wcm/4aca5488-d0af-43b0-9c99-0a1dc255e136
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Offline Omni

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Re: Child-killer transfered to "healing lodge".
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2018, 11:30:27 am »
Point one is key here.  People need to have confidence in the justice system, and to maintain that confidence they need to see that it obtains outcomes that are appropriate to the situation.  I believe that the overwhelming majority of people will feel that being transferred to a "healing lodge" isn't an appropriate outcome for someone as awful as Ms McClintic.


 -k
As has been earlier suggested I imagine Norwegians have more confidence in their justice system than we do, or certainly Americans do.

That makes Norway's incarceration rate just 75 per 100,000 people, compared to 707 people for every 100,000 people in the US.

On top of that, when criminals in Norway leave prison, they stay out. It has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world at 20%. The US has one of the highest: 76.6% of prisoners are re-arrested within five years.

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Child-killer transfered to "healing lodge".
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2018, 11:58:27 am »
That makes Norway's incarceration rate just 75 per 100,000 people, compared to 707 people for every 100,000 people in the US.

On top of that, when criminals in Norway leave prison, they stay out. It has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world at 20%. The US has one of the highest: 76.6% of prisoners are re-arrested within five years.

We cannot be compared to Norway, which has through most of its history been a small, homogeneous country of largely law abiding people with a strong work ethic and a social fabric almost as strong and unified as Japan. Its largest city is the size of Ottawa, and its next largest is a quarter that size.

Most crime in Canada (and the US and UK) comes from minorities, in particular blacks, natives and Muslims, none of which were present in Norway until very recently.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Child-killer transfered to "healing lodge".
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2018, 12:05:34 pm »
Most crime in Canada (and the US and UK) comes from minorities, in particular blacks, natives and Muslims

Please cite your evidence.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Child-killer transfered to "healing lodge".
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2018, 12:12:16 pm »
Please cite your evidence.

Yep I'll get out the popcorn for that one. The actual facts suggest the ethnic groups argus always likes to pick on are more likely to be the victims of crime rather than commit them.