Author Topic: Changing the Oath of Citizenship  (Read 404 times)

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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2017, 10:55:47 pm »
No, the least we can do is literally nothing.

Well next to nothing, this would be the least we could do. 
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2017, 08:21:32 am »
You've got to wonder why the objection to it. If it's functionally useless, yet extends an olive branch as a sign of reconciliation, why would anyone oppose this? That's what I want to know.

Offline wilber

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2017, 01:16:45 pm »
You've got to wonder why the objection to it. If it's functionally useless, yet extends an olive branch as a sign of reconciliation, why would anyone oppose this? That's what I want to know.

Why would you want to make an oath functionally useless? Why have an oath at all in that case. It isn't extending an olive branch, patronizing someone with something that has no meaning is just insulting.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2017, 01:41:13 pm »
Why would you want to make an oath functionally useless? Why have an oath at all in that case. It isn't extending an olive branch, patronizing someone with something that has no meaning is just insulting.
Did you read the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's explanation about why they recommended it?

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2017, 02:07:14 pm »
Why would you want to make an oath functionally useless? Why have an oath at all in that case. It isn't extending an olive branch, patronizing someone with something that has no meaning is just insulting.
Look at the passage.

Quote
I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true
allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, Queen
of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I
will faithfully observe the laws of Canada including
Treaties with Indigenous Peoples, and fulfill my
duties as a Canadian citizen.

Emphasis mine.

They're simply recognizing in an official manner that the treaties with the indigenous peoples are law. It's giving notice to the fact that the indigenous peoples have treaties with us and that we must observe that. You, as someone who's never taken the oath but are a citizen, must observe that because the government you elect must observe its treaties. There's nothing you can do to change that. This simply highlights the unique relationship the indigenous peoples have with the country and it makes new citizens verbally acknowledge that relationship.

Here's the full report if you care to read it. http://www.trc.ca/websites/trcinstitution/File/2015/Findings/Calls_to_Action_English2.pdf

Offline wilber

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2017, 02:14:13 pm »
Treaties are already law and Citizenship means you obey the laws of the country, period. It is just throwing someone a bone which means nothing.
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2017, 02:16:10 pm »
Treaties are already law and Citizenship means you obey the laws of the country, period. It is just throwing someone a bone which means nothing.
And again, I have to wonder why the opposition to it when it is functionally the same whether it's in there or not. What do you have against the indigenous peoples' unique relationship being recognized?

Offline wilber

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2017, 02:22:10 pm »
And again, I have to wonder why the opposition to it when it is functionally the same whether it's in there or not. What do you have against the indigenous peoples' unique relationship being recognized?

I have a problem with any group being singled out for special recognition. We have obligations toward FN peoples that are spelled out in the Constitution and treaties, I think singling out any group for special consideration is a mistake both for the country and for them.
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2017, 02:23:41 pm »
I have a problem with any group being singled out for special recognition.
Which is exactly why the indigenous peoples need to be singled out for recognition, because they're not "any group."

Offline wilber

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2017, 02:34:33 pm »
That's just the way I see it. I don't think telling one group they are somehow special compared to other citizens is positive, it just leads to a sense of entitlement that is not good for anyone. I do believe we have to live up to our obligations as set out in our Constitution, laws and treaties.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2017, 02:38:47 pm »
That's just the way I see it. I don't think telling one group they are somehow special compared to other citizens is positive, it just leads to a sense of entitlement that is not good for anyone. I do believe we have to live up to our obligations as set out in our Constitution, laws and treaties.
It's not some decree that they're "special." It's an affirmation of their unique standing in our society. They're not like other citizens and their relationships to the state and the monarch is different.

Edit: You want them to simply be just another citizen of Canada and they're not that socially, historically, nor legally.

Offline wilber

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2017, 02:59:10 pm »
It's not some decree that they're "special." It's an affirmation of their unique standing in our society. They're not like other citizens and their relationships to the state and the monarch is different.

Edit: You want them to simply be just another citizen of Canada and they're not that socially, historically, nor legally.

No, they aren't just another citizen but their status is defined in our laws, that's enough.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2017, 03:06:43 pm »
Yes and now newcomers to the country have to explicitly recognize that.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2017, 03:19:08 pm »
I have a problem with any group being singled out for special recognition.

I don't have a problem with that they are special in many ways. I agree that it seems silly that the oath is used, as it does not really apply there. As I have said many times before, I think we need to look at how we integrate new Canadian citizens. The oath is simply the final step, but we need to do a much better job earlier on. The test is ridiculous.

Offline wilber

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2017, 03:56:14 pm »
What don't you like about the test?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC