Author Topic: Changing the Oath of Citizenship  (Read 404 times)

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Offline JMT

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2017, 03:17:17 pm »
It's a symbolic gesture that was recommended by the commission.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2017, 03:19:22 pm »
But individuals don't uphold treaties.  It doesn't make any sense to me to include it in the oath.

Agreed. I think the point is just to make new Canadians aware of our obligations to the First Nations, but how you accomplish that is strange. I would understand if it were part of a citizenship curriculum (note I didn`t say test, because I think that is useless), but it seems out of place in the oath.

Offline wilber

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2017, 11:17:44 pm »
But individuals don't uphold treaties.  It doesn't make any sense to me to include it in the oath.

Me either. Native born Canadians take no oath, so are only new Canadians required to make this commitment?
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 11:21:04 pm by wilber »
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2017, 11:13:51 am »
Me either. Native born Canadians take no oath, so are only new Canadians required to make this commitment?
The Queen is Canada. By birth and by law you owe allegiance to the Queen, oath or not. The citizenship process makes it explicit.

Now, when it comes to treaties with the indigenous people, our government is required to uphold them and the government represents its citizens. Therefore, we are required to honour the treaties and do so through the government. You're committed to the treaties whether you want to be or not, since they were made on behalf of the nation.

Offline the_squid

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2017, 01:29:25 pm »
Shouldn't there be something in there about the Consititution then too?  Individuals have allegiance to the Queen....   they don't uphold treaties (or the Consititution).   It simply doesn't make sense.   I suppose it feels good to the government to include First Nations.   I think it's pandering. 
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Offline JMT

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2017, 01:44:08 pm »
It is pandering.

The Queen is the constitution, but she's also the treaties.

Offline TimG

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2017, 02:18:40 pm »
Now, when it comes to treaties with the indigenous people, our government is required to uphold them and the government represents its citizens. Therefore, we are required to honour the treaties and do so through the government. You're committed to the treaties whether you want to be or not, since they were made on behalf of the nation.
The modern interpretation of these treaties has nothing do with the law or the constitution and is really just a framework that has been foisted on the country by activist judges. Eventually there will have to be a reckoning where the non-native majority will elect politicians who are willing to get rid of the racist, neo-feudal system being pushed by the courts and replace it with one where Canadians are not granted special rights based on their DNA.

Offline wilber

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2017, 03:01:04 pm »
The Queen is Canada. By birth and by law you owe allegiance to the Queen, oath or not. The citizenship process makes it explicit.

Now, when it comes to treaties with the indigenous people, our government is required to uphold them and the government represents its citizens. Therefore, we are required to honour the treaties and do so through the government. You're committed to the treaties whether you want to be or not, since they were made on behalf of the nation.

Exactly, so what is the point in making it part of the oath, particularly an oath that not all citizens are required to take.
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2017, 03:57:27 pm »
what is the point in making it part of the oath
Like I said, it's the least we could do for the history of systematized abuse that they faced at the hands of our government and people.


particularly an oath that not all citizens are required to take.
All citizens are bound by the oath, whether they declare it before a judge to be deemed a citizen or not. It's literally your social contract as a citizen to this country.

Offline wilber

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2017, 04:22:33 pm »
Like I said, it's the least we could do for the history of systematized abuse that they faced at the hands of our government and people.



The least who could do, just new Canadians?


Quote
All citizens are bound by the oath, whether they declare it before a judge to be deemed a citizen or not. It's literally your social contract as a citizen to this country.

All citizens are not required to take the oath so it is empty. Only the law applies. I believe Canada should honour its treaties but you can probably tell I'm not a fan of empty gestures. They insult the intelligence those who receive them as well as the question the sincerity of those who make them.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 04:28:08 pm by wilber »
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2017, 05:17:07 pm »
All citizens are not required to take the oath so it is empty.
You keep saying that, but the oath applies to you as a citizen as much as it does to those who recite it at a ceremony.

Offline wilber

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2017, 05:22:28 pm »
You keep saying that, but the oath applies to you as a citizen as much as it does to those who recite it at a ceremony.

Saying the oath means nothing, it is just patronizing bullshit. The Constitution rules.
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2017, 05:31:12 pm »
Saying the oath means nothing, it is just patronizing bullshit. The Constitution rules.
It's a constitutional monarchy. So the monarch rules as well.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2017, 06:30:50 pm »
It's a symbolic gesture that was recommended by the commission.

So what? Screw the commission. Almost all of its recommendations had nothing to do with the point the commission was formed to address. If Harper had remained PM the report from the commission would have gone into the recycle bin where it belonged.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2017, 06:36:41 pm »
I just see this as being pretty harmless.