Author Topic: Changing the Oath of Citizenship  (Read 404 times)

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Offline JMT

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Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« on: February 02, 2017, 08:22:48 pm »
In recognition of a Truth and Reconciliation's recommendation, the Trudeau Government will be changing the Canadian Oath of Citizenship, requiring new citizens to pledge honour for indigenous treaties.  I'm of two minds on this.  I think it's a good idea in that it will be a symbolic victory for indigenous people.  Other than that, I'm not sure it actually does anything.

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Offline Blueblood

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2017, 09:02:40 pm »
It was fine the way it was and I think trudeau has been figuratively castrated by constantly placating to militant chiefs.  My worry is that a lot of chiefs have racist tendencies and obstruct any projects for the sake of sticking it to the white guy even though their band stands to gain a benefit from it. 

Offline JMT

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2017, 09:10:02 pm »
I'm sympathetic to that argument.  On the other hand, the Harper government did set up the TRC.  I think it would be useful to at least consider some of their recommendations.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2017, 10:15:49 pm »
It does nothing in practice a second far as I can tell. If some indigenous people appreciate it then it's literally the least we can do for their suffering.
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Offline bcsapper

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2017, 10:17:22 am »
I agree it does nothing.  I remember when I joined the BC government with two friends.  We all had to swear an oath on the Bible.  An atheist and two Buddhists. 
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline poochy

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2017, 11:44:16 am »
It doesnt do anything real, but i don't see any harm in it either.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2017, 11:46:50 am »
I'm sympathetic to that argument.  On the other hand, the Harper government did set up the TRC.  I think it would be useful to at least consider some of their recommendations.

The TRC was supposed to be specifically about the abuse of native children in residential schools. It morphed into as wide-ranging a set of recommendations as you could possibly make, most having nothing to do with the actual subject of the commission. Immigrants pledging to abide by treaties would be one of those ridiculous stretches, and it's clearly designed as yet another dumb feel-good measure by a guy who wants every ethnic and religious minority to love him.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2017, 11:47:40 am »
It does nothing in practice a second far as I can tell. If some indigenous people appreciate it then it's literally the least we can do for their suffering.

No, the least we can do is literally nothing.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline JMT

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2017, 12:34:57 pm »
It's symbolism that will mean a lot to some people.  I think it's worth at least that much.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2017, 05:24:06 pm »
I agree it does nothing.  I remember when I joined the BC government with two friends.  We all had to swear an oath on the Bible.  An atheist and two Buddhists. 
They didn't give you the option to "solemnly affirm"?

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2017, 07:13:33 pm »
They didn't give you the option to "solemnly affirm"?
Yup, I didn't swear on no Bible!  I just said I would be a good/obedient employee and not say bad things about my employer in public.  Is this public?   

Offline bcsapper

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2017, 12:51:17 pm »
They didn't give you the option to "solemnly affirm"?

We never asked. Truth be told, we were so happy to be getting on we weren't going to risk any boat rocking.
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline the_squid

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2017, 02:58:01 pm »
When will a new citizen ever need to abide by a First Nation / Canada treaty?   When will I?

Treaties are between Canada and a First Nation.   Should citizens also swear an oath to uphold a treaty between Canada and another country?

Offline JMT

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2017, 03:03:49 pm »
I think the difference is that treaties between indigenous people and the Crown are considered to be constitutional documents.

That, btw, is not an endorsement of that by me.

Offline the_squid

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Re: Changing the Oath of Citizenship
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2017, 03:08:41 pm »
I think the difference is that treaties between indigenous people and the Crown are considered to be constitutional documents.

That, btw, is not an endorsement of that by me.

But individuals don't uphold treaties.  It doesn't make any sense to me to include it in the oath.