Author Topic: Canadian incompetence  (Read 788 times)

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Canadian incompetence
« Reply #45 on: April 07, 2018, 09:17:37 am »
BTW, that's also the problem with Canada as a whole. We accept that 'that's just the way it is'. If you suddenly thawed out a bunch of people who were frozen in 1980 and introduced them to Canada's current health care system they'd be appalled. Six hour waits at ER!? Months long waits for diagnostic tests or to see specialists or for operations!?

Canadians would look at them like "Yeah. So? Something wrong?"

I imagine any resource executive thawed out who wanted to start up a project would be even more horrified by the prospect of having to endure five to ten years of public hearings, studies, environmental reports, and assorted other absurd delays before he could actually start the project. I highly doubt that was the case back then.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 09:19:23 am by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Online Michael Hardner

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Re: Canadian incompetence
« Reply #46 on: April 07, 2018, 09:22:57 am »


By the time someone climbs up through the ranks of management to the point they have the influence and ability to make changes they often can't recognize that changes are even necessary. I mean, in order to get to where they were they had to make full use of things like 'policies' to protect their backsides, along with forcing their employees to generate unnecessary work to spit out reports to justify decisions (to cover their asses).

There are people who know, deep down, that this is wrong and would be willing to help set up something new.  I see them in every organization.

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As to efficiency: If a light bulb goes out in the government they have to form a committee to explore options and seek alternatives. Can the light bulb be re-activated? Are there alternatives to the light bulb? Is the light really necessary to begin with? Experts will have to be interviewed. Studies reviewed. Extensive buy-in sought from end-users and clients. A list of options reinforced by long-winded rationals and costing will have to be developed and presented to management. Management will then review, recommend and push the recommendation up the ladder to be reviewed by a senior management committee. Ultimately, should they decide to change the light bulb, Procurement will be tasked to offer up bids to light bulb sellers. The competition will be reviewed by Legal to ensure fairness, and in due course, a contract signed, a purchase order approved, and a light bulb ordered. Once it has arrived Government Services Canada will be contacted to come and install the light bulb. Then a review of the end result will be undertaken, a report written up, buy-in sought, and the report forwarded to upper management. (to the simple minded, this is a parable)

End result is "analysis paralysis" cure is worse than the disease...

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But here's the thing. These people aren't idiots. They know it's all a tremendous waste of money. But the only one who can say so is the only beneficiary of it all. Because the point of all that effort isn't that public servants are morons who like to waste their time, but that the executive in charge will be able to justify the decision to replace the light bulb, and the cost, should this be questioned or should the project cause some unforeseen issues. All that work, all that consultation, all that buy-in is basically to cover the ass of the guy who ultimately makes the decision, so it can't damage his career if it goes off the rails.

Agreed.  The system justifies itself.

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And they all do it. So by the time you get to a very senior position it's second nature. It's your corporate culture. The only way to kick it over is from the outside but outsiders don't even know the system, so they don't know what to kick. And so we go on...

Related material that I will post in another thread:

http://podcasts.tvo.org/bi/audio/2076107_48k.mp3

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Canadian incompetence
« Reply #47 on: April 07, 2018, 11:59:29 am »
Walmart is a well-oiled machine.   ... which reduces prices for us consumers

That is a nice story, but not true. If you bought everything at WalMart, compared to buying everything at a competitive store then you might come out ahead. If you shop around however, it is generally easy to beat WalMart in at least 50% of goods.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Canadian incompetence
« Reply #48 on: April 07, 2018, 12:01:46 pm »
If Doug Ford wins, he will have a massive bureaucracy affecting many millions of people.  Whether he wants to do the best job he can or not, the machine is massive and very hard to turn around. 

He just wishes it, and it is so.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Canadian incompetence
« Reply #49 on: April 07, 2018, 01:38:49 pm »
That is a nice story, but not true. If you bought everything at WalMart, compared to buying everything at a competitive store then you might come out ahead. If you shop around however, it is generally easy to beat WalMart in at least 50% of goods.

Walmart has lower prices than Loblaws on the overwhelming majority of products.  Why?  Because of what I said, which is just market fundamentals.

Loblaws recognizes that it can't compete with Walmart prices so it has No Frills to compete, which strips away all non-essential services, staff, and marketing to lower prices to Walmart levels.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Canadian incompetence
« Reply #50 on: April 07, 2018, 01:49:05 pm »
to lower prices to Walmart levels.

I didn't say match, I said beat. There are everyday foodstuffs that No Frills beats WalMart on handily. There are countless sales at places like Canadian Tire that beat WalMart by a significant margin.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Canadian incompetence
« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2018, 04:24:28 pm »
I didn't say match, I said beat. There are everyday foodstuffs that No Frills beats WalMart on handily. There are countless sales at places like Canadian Tire that beat WalMart by a significant margin.

But these are also huge corporations.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Canadian incompetence
« Reply #52 on: April 07, 2018, 07:04:41 pm »
I didn't say match, I said beat. There are everyday foodstuffs that No Frills beats WalMart on handily. There are countless sales at places like Canadian Tire that beat WalMart by a significant margin.

I never said Walmart has cheaper prices on every item.  I said Walmart is a more efficient company, which is reflected in its low prices (I never said it has the lowest prices of any company on every item all the time).  Walmart is far more profitable than either of those companies because of these efficiencies.  If Canadian Tire and No Frills reduced all of its prices below Walmart's, Walmart would easily be able to match it or beat it and still remain the more profitable company.  And yes Walmart, No Frills, and Canadian Tire obliterates the federal gov in terms of efficiency.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley