Author Topic: Canadian attitudes on immigration: recent polling  (Read 513 times)

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Canadian attitudes on immigration: recent polling
« on: March 17, 2019, 01:35:18 pm »
To avoid thread drift in the the Andrew Scheer milquetoast thread, I'm moving this discussion here.

This polling was conducted by Ipsos Reid in Dec 2018 on Canadian-wide attitudes towards immigrants and refugees in Canada. It shows a hardening of attitudes towards immigration from previous polling years.

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2019-01/immigration-tables-1_0.pdf

https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2019-01/immigration_slides.pdf

Sample stats:
- For the statement "immigration has generally had a positive or negative impact on Canada", 39% agreed while 32% disagree.
- 44% agree with the statement "there are too many immigrants in Canada", while 23% disagree.
- 55% agree that "I would like to see tighter border controls that allow fewer immigrants into
Canada", while 19% disagree.
- 45% agree that "Immigrants make Canada a more interesting place to live", while 20% disagree.

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Canadian attitudes on immigration: recent polling
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2019, 01:36:17 pm »
Are Canadians a bunch of racist xenophobes? Do Canadians hold beliefs that are not being responded to by any of the major political parties due to "politically correct" & MSM media/social media backlash ("values test" etc.).  What are we to make of this?  What should we do going forward etc.?  Should parties respond more to what voters want, or educate them on the value of immigration?  Discuss.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 02:13:42 pm by Chesty Boobies Graham »
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Offline Pinus or Vid or...?????

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Re: Canadian attitudes on immigration: recent polling
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2019, 01:36:54 pm »
Probably influenced by what is happening in the US and Europe.

I never thought I would believe this, but it is entirely conceivable that a second Holocaust goes down in Europe within the next 15-20 years. This time around it will not be Jews as victims.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 01:42:50 pm by Vid »
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Offline JMT

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Re: Canadian attitudes on immigration: recent polling
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2019, 01:38:26 pm »
Probably influenced by what is happening in the US and Europe.

That's actually quite possible.  The Canadian circumstance isn't at all analogous.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian attitudes on immigration: recent polling
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2019, 02:01:06 pm »
Do Canadians hold beliefs that are not being responded to by any of the major political parties due to PC & MSM media/social media backlash ("values test" etc.).

your linked graphic states, "growing belief". Of course, the crux of said "belief" is its factual basis, its accuracy. Just what is causing the great-unwashed with their limited attention spans... to believe ideological driven falsehoods bull-shyte?

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Canadian attitudes on immigration: recent polling
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2019, 02:16:15 pm »
Probably influenced by what is happening in the US and Europe.

Well, I would say strongly influenced by the refugee border situation, among other things, like continuing demographics changes and parties (especially Trudeau/Liberals) doing the opposite sometimes of what Canadians seem to want policy-wise.
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Offline JMT

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Re: Canadian attitudes on immigration: recent polling
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2019, 02:48:10 pm »
Well, I would say strongly influenced by the refugee border situation,

So, what would an informed Canadian do to solve that situation (a situation that's already solving itself)?

Quote
among other things, like continuing demographics changes and parties (especially Trudeau/Liberals) doing the opposite sometimes of what Canadians seem to want policy-wise.

Canada has always been a country of demographic changes and immigration - that's how it was formed.  Canadians are either willfully ignorant on that, or just ignorant.  Immigration is what has made this country what it is.


Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Canadian attitudes on immigration: recent polling
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2019, 02:48:32 pm »
Well, I would say strongly influenced by the refugee border situation, among other things, like continuing demographics changes and parties (especially Trudeau/Liberals) doing the opposite sometimes of what Canadians seem to want policy-wise.

Conservatives made a few changes to family sponsorship but they didn't slow down on immigration.  This is not a Liberal/Conservative issue, the people at the top all seem to think it's what the country needs.

I'm a first generation Canadian, raised here and identify as Canadian, and I'm not disputing the fact that things aren't going as planned.  That actually scares the crap out of me since I'll probably still be alive when the **** really hits the fan and I may end up in a gas chamber.

But Liberals' fault, this is not...

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Canadian attitudes on immigration: recent polling
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2019, 04:03:54 pm »
A - I don't care about thread drift.  Like I said that, isn't a thing here.

Which I appreciate.  I just think this topic deserves its own thread, so i made one.

Quote
B - I lived in Winnipeg for 4 years.

Winnipeg has few non-European immigrants, and virtually no non-Christian immigrants. There's virtually no Muslims in Winnipeg as far as I can see in the statistics (i'm not saying Muslims are bad, im just making a point).  It's not the same as living in Toronto or Vancouver or Montreal the last few decades, which has seen huge cultural/demographic changes, where white majorities have turned to white minorities in many cities in these areas.  Many people, naturally (tribalism) have become uncomfortable with this. There's issues of culture, which is much different than economic issues.  We can't ignore how people feel.  Quebec, for instance, has a culture it wishes to preserve.

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I am a minority as a white in the area that I live in.

True, which is a valuable experience i'm sure honestly. But a white minority among first-nations on a reserve is much different than being a minority among immigrants in Toronto/GTA or Vancouver area, where 30 years ago they were a majority.  The biggest cities in Canada have underground unbelievable demographic & cultural changes.

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Immigrants are less likely to commit crimes and tend to be more educated than native born Canadians.  Refugees are a totally different thing, and we are obligated to receive them, and I'm proud that we do.  People with brown skim simply don't scare me.

This is a complex question, regarding crime.  Overall, over the long term, the average immigrant commits less crime.  That's because most immigrants come via economic class, so they're educated and can get a decent job, or are married to someone who has a decent job.  Canada gets a lot of economic immigrants from China and India for instance, and they on average do well as especially as their time in Canada increases and they kind secure employment.

Statistically, the problem comes with low income immigrants, which especially new and recent immigrants (less than 10 years) from certain continents/countries, such as most parts of Africa and south/central America/Caribbean and some parts of Asia.

This is especially a problem with refugees, since 1. refugees on average don't know english/french as well or at all, compared to regular immigrant classes, and therefore securing employment is more difficult, 2. we don't discriminate on who we take as refugees based on their education or income level, so refugees are much lower in these areas, again contributing to crime for them and their children etc, and 3. many refugees come from some of the poorest and most violent places in the world, and they can sometime bring some of that behavioral culture to Canada.  This combines to result in areas of cities with a concentration of low income immigrants from certain countries (ie: lots of Somali refugees) where crime including violent crime is high.

Some of this can be explained in this academic paper, which also supports some of your claims (see table 14):http://www.clsrn.econ.ubc.ca/workingpapers/CLSRN%20Working%20Paper%20no.%20135%20-%20Zhang.pdf
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Canadian attitudes on immigration: recent polling
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2019, 04:29:30 pm »
So, what would an informed Canadian do to solve that situation (a situation that's already solving itself)?

I'm not sure.  I'm just noting the frustration among the public over it.

I wouldn't say the situation is "already solving itself", though maybe the crossing numbers have lowered, i'm not sure i haven't seen recent stats.

Quote
Canada has always been a country of demographic changes and immigration - that's how it was formed.  Canadians are either willfully ignorant on that, or just ignorant.  Immigration is what has made this country what it is.

Canada in its history has never seen the racial demographic changes happening in recent decades.  It's never seen the amount of non-westerners or "third world" folks immigrating to Canada we're seeing.  Canada has never seen significantly sized cities with large or even majority #'s of non-westerners, many with non-english/french mother tongues.  Canada used to be almost all Christian or people from judeo-christian countries but now we're seeing big increases in people with very different religious cultures (Sikh, Hindu, Muslim etc).  This is bound to cause social tension.

This is a unique situation in our history, and in the history of the West generally.  If it's the same situation as its always been, why all the problems we're seeing now?  Demographic differences between anglo, french, and natives in this country has caused frictions that have never gone away even 400 years later.  If recent demographic changes were a temporary trend there would be no concern, but these changes will continue & increase & for the first time in Canadian history the founding majority ethnicities will become minorities in a few decades, and we should be aware that this has been & will cause cultural & racial tensions like Canada has never seen.  It caused the NZ shooter to go bonkers, & terrorists to attack Parliament Hill.
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Offline Omni

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I'm not sure.  I'm just noting the frustration among the public over it.

I wouldn't say the situation is "already solving itself", though maybe the crossing numbers have lowered, i'm not sure i haven't seen recent stats.

Canada in its history has never seen the racial demographic changes happening in recent decades.  It's never seen the amount of non-westerners or "third world" folks immigrating to Canada we're seeing.  Canada has never seen significantly sized cities with large or even majority #'s of non-westerners, many with non-english/french mother tongues.  Canada used to be almost all Christian or people from judeo-christian countries but now we're seeing big increases in people with very different religious cultures (Sikh, Hindu, Muslim etc).  This is bound to cause social tension.

This is a unique situation in our history, and in the history of the West generally.  If it's the same situation as its always been, why all the problems we're seeing now?  Demographic differences between anglo, french, and natives in this country has caused frictions that have never gone away even 400 years later.  If recent demographic changes were a temporary trend there would be no concern, but these changes will continue & increase & for the first time in Canadian history the founding majority ethnicities will become minorities in a few decades, and we should be aware that this has been & will cause cultural & racial tensions like Canada has never seen.  It caused the NZ shooter to go bonkers, & terrorists to attack Parliament Hill.

Sounds like you are suggesting the people murdered in their place of worship in NZ are to blame for the actions of the murderer who killed them.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Conservatives made a few changes to family sponsorship but they didn't slow down on immigration.  This is not a Liberal/Conservative issue, the people at the top all seem to think it's what the country needs.

It may be what the country needs economically, but, according the polls, it's not what the country wants. or at least likes.  This is how people like Trump and far-right parties get elected: politicians determine what voters want, instead of doing what they want.

Quote
I'm a first generation Canadian, raised here and identify as Canadian, and I'm not disputing the fact that things aren't going as planned.  That actually scares the crap out of me since I'll probably still be alive when the **** really hits the fan and I may end up in a gas chamber.

I don;t think that would happen.

Quote
But Liberals' fault, this is not...

The Liberals have pursued a policy of official multiculturalism, rather than interculturalism or assimilation.  Back in the 60's/early 70's this originally meant multiculturalism as in separate but equal anglos, francophones, and indigenous people living within one country, which makes sense.  But then this was changed along the way to mean all cultures throughout the world.  Then Trudeau proclaimed Canada a post-national state, meanwhile they've continued to crank up the immigration rates in Canada, and lower the requirements to become a citizen, & now say eventually they want almost 500k immigrants per year.  All without asking or caring what Canadians want.  So yeah, it is their fault.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Sounds like you are suggesting the people murdered in their place of worship in NZ are to blame for the actions of the murderer who killed them.

No, i'm in no way suggesting that in any way whatsoever and have no darned clue how you would have come to that ridiculous conclusion/accusation.
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Offline JMT

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Which I appreciate.  I just think this topic deserves its own thread, so i made one.

Also perfectly acceptable.

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Winnipeg has few non-European immigrants, and virtually no non-Christian immigrants. There's virtually no Muslims in Winnipeg as far as I can see in the statistics (i'm not saying Muslims are bad, im just making a point).  It's not the same as living in Toronto or Vancouver or Montreal the last few decades, which has seen huge cultural/demographic changes, where white majorities have turned to white minorities in many cities in these areas.

You realize that all of those white people are also the descendants of immigrants?  Winnipeg is a unique case.  There is a large African population in an area I still frequent, but the main dichotomy is that between white middle class Winnipegers and poor aboriginals in the North End.  You're right though, it's different.

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True, which is a valuable experience i'm sure honestly. But a white minority among first-nations on a reserve is much different than being a minority among immigrants in Toronto/GTA or Vancouver area, where 30 years ago they were a majority.  The biggest cities in Canada have underground unbelievable demographic & cultural changes.

And I'd argue that they always have.  There has always been the fear of the other with each new wave of immigration.  All that's changed is their skin colour.  When you strip away culture, religion, and language, we're all human.

Quote
This is a complex question, regarding crime.  Overall, over the long term, the average immigrant commits less crime.  That's because most immigrants come via economic class, so they're educated and can get a decent job, or are married to someone who has a decent job.  Canada gets a lot of economic immigrants from China and India for instance, and they on average do well as especially as their time in Canada increases and they kind secure employment.

And this is something that Canada is the best in the world at.

Quote
Statistically, the problem comes with low income immigrants, which especially new and recent immigrants (less than 10 years) from certain continents/countries, such as most parts of Africa and south/central America/Caribbean and some parts of Asia.

This is especially a problem with refugees, since 1. refugees on average don't know english/french as well or at all, compared to regular immigrant classes, and therefore securing employment is more difficult, 2. we don't discriminate on who we take as refugees based on their education or income level, so refugees are much lower in these areas, again contributing to crime for them and their children etc, and 3. many refugees come from some of the poorest and most violent places in the world, and they can sometime bring some of that behavioral culture to Canada.  This combines to result in areas of cities with a concentration of low income immigrants from certain countries (ie: lots of Somali refugees) where crime including violent crime is high.

And that's certainly a problem.  It doesn't change our obligation to take refugees or our long history of doing so.  As a society, we've always managed to work through these problems.

Offline Omni

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No, i'm in no way suggesting that in any way whatsoever and have no darned clue how you would have come to that ridiculous conclusion/accusation.

Quite simple, if racial tension caused this man to go to a mosque to shoot and kill 50 people, that's on him, not them.
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