Author Topic: Canadian Ambassador to Saudi Arabia expelled.  (Read 565 times)

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Canadian Ambassador to Saudi Arabia expelled.
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2018, 04:19:36 pm »
This does seem pretty over the top.  One point is that I gather the Saudi crown prince has taken charge of things, so this might be his first international incident.  Maybe he wants to show everybody that he's a big boy and won't be pushed around.

 -k

He sounds like he's trying to pull off a Trump move and be the tough guy.  Who knows, maybe the Trump admin is even in on it since the Trumpsters are trying to stick it to Freeland and Trudeau with NAFTA, and the Saudis have blocked trade of some goods with us over this tiff.

The Saudis are just as reliant on us for oil revenue as we are for buying their oil, so neither party wins if it goes to that.  Unless we threaten to go green hahaha.

Eff the Saudis.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Canadian Ambassador to Saudi Arabia expelled.
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2018, 04:28:19 pm »
Don't think so. Women in China have been allowed to drive and own property for years. The Saudis have only recently allowed the former. I hasten to add I'm not a fan of China's record on human rights but if anyone is going the wrong direction it's the Saudis. They just nailed a guy to a cross in Mecca.

Being allowed to drive is a tiny aspect of things. There is no freedom of speech, assembly or association allowed in China, and the government monitors every form of communications. You can be imprisoned and tortured and killed for believing in the wrong religion, or for opposing government policy.

All of that is not dissimilar to Saudi Arabia. They're both shithole countries.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 04:30:01 pm by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Canadian Ambassador to Saudi Arabia expelled.
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2018, 04:34:09 pm »
Have you read "Ethical Oil" by Ezra Levant?

(Yes, I know, THAT Ezra Levant)

His argument doesn't fly with me.  Most of our goods are produced in despotic developing countries with terrible human rights records.  So if you're going to follow that argument you're going to have to stop buying most things and call them evil.

The only way to make despotic regimes less despotic is to trade with them so their citizens make more and more money, and by extension become more educated, and with that new education/knowledge they begin to figure out how crappy their government is and attempt to reform it.  That's how development tends to work.

In the end, we don't need bad relations with the Saudis, but we also shouldn't be pushed around, but from their perspective nor should they.  Somebody has to concede in this situation.  The plain fact is that the Saudi gov needs the west on their side much more than the reverse.  For us it means oil prices and economic health, for them it means the security of the Saudi regime itself against its regional enemies, notably Iran.  We don't really gain anything by having the ability to tweet about human rights abuses which will have little influence on their politics.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Canadian Ambassador to Saudi Arabia expelled.
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2018, 05:35:32 pm »
Being allowed to drive is a tiny aspect of things. There is no freedom of speech, assembly or association allowed in China, and the government monitors every form of communications. You can be imprisoned and tortured and killed for believing in the wrong religion, or for opposing government policy.

All of that is not dissimilar to Saudi Arabia. They're both shithole countries.

Actually that's not quite true. Article 35 of the Chinese Constitution does grant the right of freedom of speech. Now, they certainly have ways of controlling that freedom, but in recent years restrictions have been loosened and things like google are allowed in certain areas. Not exactly the freedom we enjoy but Chaina is at least moving slowly in the right direction, while Saudi Arabia moves in the total opposite direction.

Offline TimG

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Re: Canadian Ambassador to Saudi Arabia expelled.
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2018, 06:10:57 pm »
His argument doesn't fly with me.  Most of our goods are produced in despotic developing countries with terrible human rights records.  So if you're going to follow that argument you're going to have to stop buying most things and call them evil.
While what you say is true I think you miss his point that those who argue that Canadian oil should not be used because it is "dirty" need to rethink their priorities.

Offline wilber

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Re: Canadian Ambassador to Saudi Arabia expelled.
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2018, 06:28:06 pm »
This was premeditated. Any normal country would have called in our ambassador to explain the comments, make their objection and demand an apology. Instead they went directly to attack mode without talking to anyone. They were looking for someone to dump on and we got the honour, and in a way, I think it is an honour. If nothing else it highlights the fundamental differences between us and that's fine with me.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Canadian Ambassador to Saudi Arabia expelled.
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2018, 06:39:33 pm »
While what you say is true I think you miss his point that those who argue that Canadian oil should not be used because it is "dirty" need to rethink their priorities.

Yes I agree. 
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Canadian Ambassador to Saudi Arabia expelled.
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2018, 08:07:46 pm »
Actually that's not quite true. Article 35 of the Chinese Constitution does grant the right of freedom of speech. Now, they certainly have ways of controlling that freedom, but in recent years restrictions have been loosened and things like google are allowed in certain areas. Not exactly the freedom we enjoy but Chaina is at least moving slowly in the right direction, while Saudi Arabia moves in the total opposite direction.

I would suggest you look again. Mr. President-For-Life has definitely **** down on all aspects of freedom of speech, and any and all opposition to government behavior or policy - including womens rights groups.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Re: Canadian Ambassador to Saudi Arabia expelled.
« Reply #38 on: August 09, 2018, 02:41:59 pm »
I wonder if the Saudis used any of the billions worth of weapons Trump sold them to blow up a school bus full of children in Yemen.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Canadian Ambassador to Saudi Arabia expelled.
« Reply #39 on: August 09, 2018, 03:06:42 pm »
I wonder if the Saudis used any of the billions worth of weapons Trump sold them to blow up a school bus full of children in Yemen.

We can't really lay this on Trump. We sold them weapons, so did the British, French and Germans.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
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Offline SirJohn

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"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Re: Canadian Ambassador to Saudi Arabia expelled.
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2018, 03:27:03 pm »
We can't really lay this on Trump. We sold them weapons, so did the British, French and Germans.

We did and we shouldn't have. But we sold them 15 billion worth of LAV jeeps. Trump, 350 billion worth of fighter planes, missiles, frigates, etc.

Offline wilber

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"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline SirJohn

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"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline JMT

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Re: Canadian Ambassador to Saudi Arabia expelled.
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2018, 06:38:40 pm »
No, except we gave them the excuse.

Who cares?
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