Author Topic: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture  (Read 7082 times)

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Offline eyeball

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #270 on: July 07, 2021, 11:53:45 am »
of course the papacy had nothing to do with the related policies or their implementation... and, again: The Canadian Catholic Church did not have a collective role in the residential schools; decisions were often made by individual dioceses and orders. Individual bishops did apologize, following the apology example of the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate - the order in charge of the largest number of the residential schools.
Poor church...its not fair

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p i s s off! Your nonsensical "underlings" designation ignores the positioning and role of the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate.
Actually it mocks your attempt to position them.

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By the by, I must have missed you calling out the United Church... and the Archbishop of Canterbury no less!
Ah whataboutery...yeah that'll work, no one ever catches on to that.

Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #271 on: July 07, 2021, 12:11:43 pm »
Poor church...its not fair

Actually it mocks your attempt to position them.

Ah whataboutery...yeah that'll work, no one ever catches on to that.

again, the papacy had no role... for that matter the Canadian Catholic Church did not have a collective role; again, decisions were often made by individual dioceses and orders.

ya ya, the waldo isn't, as you say, "positioning" the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate... their role, their "positioning", is self-acknowledged; their apology speaks for itself.

really? Whataboutery? Really? You mean like all those clamouring for a papal apology... while drawing reference to all the other apologies given along the way. Like that?

Offline eyeball

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #272 on: July 07, 2021, 11:30:58 pm »
again, the papacy had no role... for that matter the Canadian Catholic Church did not have a collective role; again, decisions were often made by individual dioceses and orders.
You hear much the same argument from the sort of people who support the O'toole's of the world - that taxpayers are not responsible for reconciliation. It's just a variation on the old shtick "it was a different age back then...time to get over it".

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ya ya, the waldo isn't, as you say, "positioning" the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate... their role, their "positioning", is self-acknowledged; their apology speaks for itself.
Sure...the Vatican and it's Pope's never knew nuthin' about nuthin'. Maybe it's an Italian thing.

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really? Whataboutery? Really? You mean like all those clamouring for a papal apology... while drawing reference to all the other apologies given along the way. Like that?
No, like partisan hacks who deflect spotlights. Are you implying the other apologies should be retracted?

Offline eyeball

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #273 on: September 30, 2021, 10:12:32 am »
It seems perverted to me that Canadians should be given a day's pay to celebrate our reconciliation with Canada's indigenous peoples while Ottawa is withholding compensation to them.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #274 on: September 30, 2021, 01:52:56 pm »
apologies/compensation to-date:

=>2007 settlement:
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The court-approved compensation scheme arose out of a comprehensive class-action settlement in 2007 involving survivors, the federal government and churches that ran the schools. The Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement included a Common Experience Payment for all students who attended the schools, a five-year endowment for the Aboriginal Healing Foundation, and the Independent Assessment Process (IAP) to adjudicate claims from students who had suffered abuse at the schools.

Under the IAP, claimants were entitled to up to $275,000 each, based on the nature and level of abuse suffered.

In all 38,276 claims were received, with Saskatchewan having the most claimants. Adjudicators awarded $2.14 billion in compensation to 23,431 claimants while another 4,415 claimants received compensation directly from the federal government.

Overall, the government paid out $3.23 billion in compensation and other costs. The process itself cost another $411 million.

=> Nov 2017 apology/settlement to residential school survivors in Newfoundland & Labrador (per Macleans):
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Stephen Harper’s 2008 apology to residential school survivors was considered a historic, if largely symbolic, step towards reconciliation with Canada’s First Peoples. In making the gesture, however, Harper failed to acknowledge the Innu, Inuit and NunatuKavut people of Newfoundland and Labrador. Why? Because residential schools in the province were set up before Newfoundland and Labrador joined Confederation. The five residential schools that operated in the province—the last closing in 1980—weren’t federally run, and so the Harper government evidently felt no need to recognize the thousands of survivors who attended them, nor their families or communities.

The decision was seen as a particularly glaring flaw of the apology—one that translated as a distinct lack of sincerity and empathy for Canada’s Indigenous people. A class-action lawsuit ensued and, last year, the Liberal government agreed to distribute $50 million to Indigenous survivors who were left out of the original apology and settlement.

On Friday, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau moved further to make up for the previous government’s omission with a tearful apology delivered to hundreds of former students and their families in Goose Bay. “Saying that we are sorry today is not enough. It will not undo the harm that was done to you. It will not bring back the languages and traditions you lost. It will not take away the isolation and vulnerability you felt when you separated from your families, communities and cultures,” the Prime Minister said. “We share this burden with you by fully accepting our responsibilities—and our failings—as a government and as a country.”

It seems perverted to me that Canadians should be given a day's pay to celebrate our reconciliation with Canada's indigenous peoples while Ottawa is withholding compensation to them.

waldo factoids:
- in regards indigenous children taken from homes and communities under the on-reserve child welfare system from Jan. 1, 2006, to a date to be determined by the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal (CHRT). (the waldo emphasizes the reference point includes the complete Harper Conservative governance period).
- judicial challenge was not in regards compensation or compensation amounts; rather, the challenge principally centered on jurisdictional standing of the CHRT - maintaining that a full judicial review is required to validate said standing (among several other matters).
- at the time of the initiation of the court challenge, then leader of the CPC (Andrew Scheer) agreed that a judicial review was necessary.
- on a practical level, the challenge was concerned with the mechanics of determining compensation eligibility and how payments would be made. Additionally, the challenge questioned the CHRT acting as the conduit for compensation payments and questioned the mandate of the CHRT to establish new categories of persons/groups eligible for compensation.
- even if one accepts... outright accepts the CHRT findings, one finding is to determine the best independent process to distribute the compensation and decide who qualifies - something that hasn't occurred; something that requires negotiation between the government and an assortment of indigenous stakeholders.

accordingly to summarily state that, as you did, "compensation is being withheld" is woefully mis/underinformed... compensation to who and how much, hey!
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Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #275 on: September 30, 2021, 05:47:57 pm »
I don't like the dumb button either.  I wouldn't say it ruins my day or impact my life in any way but I find it's not really conducive to a good discussion.
Slagging a post as dumb without a reply is quite cowardly TBH.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #276 on: September 30, 2021, 05:49:32 pm »

Offline eyeball

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #277 on: September 30, 2021, 06:07:18 pm »

accordingly to summarily state that, as you did, "compensation is being withheld" is woefully mis/underinformed...
Go tell it to the Supreme Court.

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compensation to who and how much, hey!
Every indigenous person that was affected in the most recent SC ruling on compensation to indigenous people. At least $40000 each.

The SC released its ruling just the day before Canada's first holiday celebrating Canada's reconciliation with indigenous people. It should be a national day of shame not a paid holiday. Maybe one day it'll mark the occasion when indigenous people get their annual royalty cheques.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2021, 06:09:15 pm by eyeball »
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Offline bcsapper

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #278 on: September 30, 2021, 07:40:30 pm »
It seems perverted to me that Canadians should be given a day's pay to celebrate our reconciliation with Canada's indigenous peoples while Ottawa is withholding compensation to them.

Did I work for my pay today when I didn't have to?
Time for bed said Zebedee...

Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #279 on: September 30, 2021, 11:13:11 pm »
Go tell it to the Supreme Court. Every indigenous person that was affected in the most recent SC ruling on compensation to indigenous people. At least $40000 each.

The SC released its ruling just the day before Canada's first holiday celebrating Canada's reconciliation with indigenous people.

no - not the Supreme Court... not a SCOC ruling! This was a Federal Court... one single judge... ruling. Will it be appealed to the Federal Court of Appeal? I would expect so given the overreach and lack of standing of the Canadian Human Rights tribunal. The last thing needed is a precedent that improperly positions the CHRT to make future like rulings rather than litigants pursuing proper class-action type initiatives through the courts.

the waldo suggests you (and your agreeable buddy, the BC cheque lady) do some research before beaking-off again on something you clearly know little-to-nothing about!

I expect you & the cheque lady are lock-step with the NDP/Singh lies stating that, "PM Trudeau was taking indigenous children to court" - yes?

Offline eyeball

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #280 on: October 01, 2021, 12:08:11 pm »
no - not the Supreme Court... not a SCOC ruling!

In either case the ruling underscores once again that delaying and avoidance has been the defining feature of Canada's relationship with indigenous people.

As for the HRT, I'm all for reforming things so its rulings reflect better on Canada's policies - by making indigenous peoples senior partners with the crown in Canada's confederation and constitution.

Offline eyeball

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #281 on: October 01, 2021, 07:59:08 pm »
Will it be appealed to the Federal Court of Appeal? I would expect so given the overreach and lack of standing of the Canadian Human Rights tribunal.
So what was stopping Trudeau from thanking the HRT for its work, asserting his jurisdiction and paying the amount they'd advised?

Of course then he'd be pleading the need to review everything in sight a couple times and indigenous folks would still be waiting.

Trudeau is an expert at seducing the canine.

Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #282 on: October 02, 2021, 11:19:52 am »
So what was stopping Trudeau from thanking the HRT for its work, asserting his jurisdiction and paying the amount they'd advised?

Of course then he'd be pleading the need to review everything in sight a couple times and indigenous folks would still be waiting.

Trudeau is an expert at seducing the canine.

ok, ok... the waldo has given you enough leash lead - enough to showcase your ignorance and the blathering nonsense you keep trotting out! Notwithstanding the aforementioned appeal was one of principle in regards the jurisdiction of the CHRT, try the following on for size, hey... note the emphasis on class action lawsuits:

Ottawa agrees to certify 2 class action lawsuits over the treatment of First Nation children --- Certification could lead to a single major settlement, including Canadian Human Rights Tribunal compensation

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The certification of the class actions sets the stage for what could be an umbrella settlement that could cover the two cases and a separate First Nations child welfare compensation order issued by the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal, which is facing a judicial review before the Federal Court.

The two class action lawsuits received certification on Thursday. One was filed by the Assembly of First Nations {Jan 28th} on behalf of former First Nation foster children, while the other was filed by three law firms on behalf of a former foster child from a Quebec and Nova Scotia First Nation member who suffers from cerebral palsy.
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Ottawa is entering into mediation to settle the lawsuits, which are seeking billions of dollars in compensation for First Nation children affected by the on-reserve child welfare system and for those who were denied services Ottawa was expected to provide under what's known as Jordan's Principle.

Jordan's Principle states that First Nation children on reserves must not be kept waiting for vital social services because governments can't agree on who should pay for them.

Quote from: Indigenous Services Minister Marc Miller & Justice Minister David Lametti
Consenting to certification marks a step forward in negotiating a settlement to compensate those harmed by under-funding of child and family services on reserve

The AFN lawsuit is seeking $10 billion in damages. The CHRT orders the federal government pay $40,000 — the maximum allowed under the Canadian Human Rights Act — to each child taken from their homes and communities through the on-reserve child welfare system from Jan. 1, 2006, to a date to be determined by the tribunal...

oh my waldo! Some estimates place the number of children that could be affected at about 50,000... who is to say what the negotiated settlements might actually end at, but that CHRT order 40K @ 50K children... why that's $2 Billion dollars! And the AFN class action lawsuit on its own is asking for $10 Billion dollars. Hey member eyeball, how much bigger is 10 compared to 2?... 'seducing the canine, indeed!'

Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #283 on: October 02, 2021, 11:23:20 am »
c'mon waldo, now you're just piling on! LOL!

Federal Court approves residential school day scholars settlement

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Students who attended residential schools by day but went home at night weren't included in 2006 settlement.

The Federal Court of Canada has approved a settlement reached in a class-action lawsuit against the federal government by survivors of residential schools who were left out of a 2006 settlement agreement.

"Day scholars" attended residential schools during the day but returned home at night. They suffered the same destruction of language and culture as other students at residential schools, but were excluded from the 2006 Indian Residential Schools Settlement Agreement.

The day scholars settlement, announced in June, was approved by the Federal Court on Sept. 24, according to a news release from Crown–Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada.

The settlement includes individual compensation of $10,000, as well as support for healing, wellness, education, language, culture, heritage and commemoration for survivors and descendants, according to the release.

Offline eyeball

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #284 on: October 02, 2021, 12:45:24 pm »
Certification could lead to a single major settlement, including Canadian Human Rights Tribunal compensation
How many more years will that take another 5, 10, 15?

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seducing the canine, indeed!'
Yup, that's what I said.