Author Topic: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture  (Read 7081 times)

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Offline eyeball

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #150 on: June 06, 2021, 06:17:24 pm »
I'm not offended of afraid of losing something, i'm just saying you can't disassociate yourself from this.
It's more a matter of associating myself with my 1st Nations neighbours and recognizing their chiefs and and being thankful for welcoming me into their territory. I feel much more at home as a human being here than I do in Canada as a colonist.

Gorgeous Graham may be onto something with his suggestion that simply denouncing the government should morph into mutual denouncement for people who wish to opt out. Now that Canada's government has admitted it's genocide it will soon find itself being handed a bill for reconciliation the price of which may be so high on top of everything else that our taxes either go thru the roof or our services go in the toilet or both.  Soon you'll be demanding the Brits and the Pope pay their share too. 

I'll take my chances with the Nuu-Chah-Nulth.

Online wilber

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #151 on: June 06, 2021, 07:18:31 pm »
It's more a matter of associating myself with my 1st Nations neighbours and recognizing their chiefs and and being thankful for welcoming me into their territory. I feel much more at home as a human being here than I do in Canada as a colonist.

Gorgeous Graham may be onto something with his suggestion that simply denouncing the government should morph into mutual denouncement for people who wish to opt out. Now that Canada's government has admitted it's genocide it will soon find itself being handed a bill for reconciliation the price of which may be so high on top of everything else that our taxes either go thru the roof or our services go in the toilet or both.  Soon you'll be demanding the Brits and the Pope pay their share too. 


The Brits and the Pope are responsible. I saw naathing worthy of Sergeant Shultz. You can identify as what you want, you canít change your biology or origins.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2021, 07:20:36 pm by wilber »
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #152 on: June 07, 2021, 12:25:55 am »
It's more a matter of associating myself with my 1st Nations neighbours and recognizing their chiefs and and being thankful for welcoming me into their territory. I feel much more at home as a human being here than I do in Canada as a colonist.

Gorgeous Graham may be onto something with his suggestion that simply denouncing the government should morph into mutual denouncement for people who wish to opt out. Now that Canada's government has admitted it's genocide it will soon find itself being handed a bill for reconciliation the price of which may be so high on top of everything else that our taxes either go thru the roof or our services go in the toilet or both.  Soon you'll be demanding the Brits and the Pope pay their share too. 

I'll take my chances with the Nuu-Chah-Nulth.

Aboriginals and non-aboriginals all live in Canada now, nobody's going anywhere, so we need to learn how to share this land.  Non-aboriginals feeling self-hatred, shame, and guilt for the sins of their fathers and denouncing their country isn't in any way useful, nor is it useful for aboriginals to live their lives angry and resentful about what they once consider "theirs" being taken from them.  The past is done, it's over, we can only deal with what can be done in the present and future and move forward in the best way possible.

That doesn't mean turning a blind eye to past wrongs and not demanding accountability, it just means not being stuck in the negative emotions about the past and moving on with our lives.  This goes for anything in life and it's how I try to live after learning the hard way.  Anyone may have been wronged at some point in their life, and it's very painful, but at some point you have to let go of that anger because it will tear you apart.

There really needs to be truth and reconciliation in this country so we can all try and get over all this and really move forward together while making things right as best we can. Aboriginals will never get all their land back because others live there now, just need to find some kind of compromise that's reasonable where most people are satisfied.
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Offline eyeball

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #153 on: June 07, 2021, 11:14:11 am »
That doesn't mean turning a blind eye to past wrongs and not demanding accountability, it just means not being stuck in the negative emotions about the past and moving on with our lives.  This goes for anything in life and it's how I try to live after learning the hard way.  Anyone may have been wronged at some point in their life, and it's very painful, but at some point you have to let go of that anger because it will tear you apart.
Go tell it to people who are reliving all their pain in light of Kamloops.

It's completely legitimate to use that anger to compel attention and action by directing it where it's deserved namely the government of Canada and the Pope.  Andrew Coyne hit the nail on the head by also pointing out that cancelling the celebration of John A MacDonald is justified given that the residential school system he created is too big and enduring an evil to just 'let go of'. By all means keep the history but like the attempt to not glorify horrific crimes we should refuse any recognition of its architects and perpetrators. This is far more than just a mere dark chapter of Canada's history and I suspect Canada Day will feel a little strained and muted this year. It's a paid statutory holiday too isn't? Amazing.
 
As for the present, the Catholic Church is very likely burning its secret records as we speak, the government knows it, and so for me it's not just anger its outright un-abiding disgust with the systemic nature of how our most important institutions dodge accountability and how we never deal with that.  They simply don't deserve to exist.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #154 on: June 07, 2021, 11:30:38 am »
If the churches are hiding evidence and Canada doesnít force them to be accountable, how can there be truth and reconciliation?

I am not about to believe that there are NO records anywhere that wouldíve pointed to 215 childrenís bodies buried in the yard.  Not until the authorities actually serve search warrants and subpoenas to the churches and actually look for evidence.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2021, 12:57:49 pm by the_squid »
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Offline eyeball

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #155 on: June 07, 2021, 12:28:38 pm »
I recall that defenders of faith like to claim how the moral religious teachings from antiquity shape the modern legal systems and governments of today - that certainly seems true of Catholicism and Canada..
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #156 on: June 07, 2021, 02:34:59 pm »
Go tell it to people who are reliving all their pain in light of Kamloops.

It's completely legitimate to use that anger to compel attention and action by directing it where it's deserved namely the government of Canada and the Pope.  Andrew Coyne hit the nail on the head by also pointing out that cancelling the celebration of John A MacDonald is justified given that the residential school system he created is too big and enduring an evil to just 'let go of'. By all means keep the history but like the attempt to not glorify horrific crimes we should refuse any recognition of its architects and perpetrators. This is far more than just a mere dark chapter of Canada's history and I suspect Canada Day will feel a little strained and muted this year. It's a paid statutory holiday too isn't? Amazing.
 
As for the present, the Catholic Church is very likely burning its secret records as we speak, the government knows it, and so for me it's not just anger its outright un-abiding disgust with the systemic nature of how our most important institutions dodge accountability and how we never deal with that.  They simply don't deserve to exist.

As I said, I'm not saying don't demand accountability, and for those that lived it they will rightly feel pain and anger whenever new details are brought to light, and sometimes trauma never goes away.  People wronged deserve justice.  But your solution is f*** Canada as an institution in its entirety, which is totally illogical and not at all helpful, and in fact counter-productive and in many ways despicable.  Feel free to move to a country that doesn't have blood on its hands, it simply doesn't exist.  If it wasn't for Canada and Britain we might all be speaking German, and if it wasn't for Sir John we'd probably be saluting our POTUS Donald Trump the last 4 years, and all of this goes for aboriginals too.  Canada is filled with faults and triumphs like any country.

There are many people on the hard left like you that only sees the negatives in our society and governments, and are doing their best to destroy Western Civilization before our very eyes because of all this guilt and self-hatred they have.  I know this because I used to feel it too.  It's a cancer.  Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean you have to destroy it, or that it also doesn't have positive aspects.  Taking down statues of Sir John is fine, but we need to be careful about the new narratives we create about our history because they can easily contain half-truths and crooked moralizing like the old false narratives we've been sold.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #157 on: June 07, 2021, 03:19:36 pm »
As I said, I'm not saying don't demand accountability, and for those that lived it they will rightly feel pain and anger whenever new details are brought to light, and sometimes trauma never goes away.  People wronged deserve justice.  But your solution is f*** Canada as an institution in its entirety, which is totally illogical and not at all helpful, and in fact counter-productive and in many ways despicable.  Feel free to move to a country that doesn't have blood on its hands, it simply doesn't exist. If it wasn't for Canada and Britain we might all be speaking German, and if it wasn't for Sir John we'd probably be saluting our POTUS Donald Trump the last 4 years, and all of this goes for aboriginals too.  Canada is filled with faults and triumphs like any country.



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There are many people on the hard left like you that only sees the negatives in our society and governments, and are doing their best to destroy Western Civilization before our very eyes because of all this guilt and self-hatred they have.  I know this because I used to feel it too.  It's a cancer. Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean you have to destroy it, or that it also doesn't have positive aspects. Taking down statues of Sir John is fine, but we need to be careful about the new narratives we create about our history because they can easily contain half-truths and crooked moralizing like the old false narratives we've been sold.

You seem to be labouring under the mistaken impression that this is about correcting history and not addressing the ongoing legacy of historical wrongs. You cannot move on from the past when the past is still alive here in the present.

Also, couching every revelation about past atrocities with "but what about the good things" is a form of denialism.

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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #158 on: June 07, 2021, 04:18:14 pm »
Iím beginning to think Canada needs help with this. Clearly, Canada isnít going to hold anyone responsible. We had a Truth and Reconciliation commission that happened to omit that childrenís bodies were buried in the backyard???

I think we need the International Criminal Court to look at this with Canadaís full support.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-canadian-lawyers-icc-residential-school-investigation-1.6052054
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #159 on: June 07, 2021, 04:52:01 pm »

Yes Russia was the most instrumental country in defeating the Nazis, i was responding to eyeball's self-loathing of Canada specifically.

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You cannot move on from the past when the past is still alive here in the present.

Yes I agree with this and have addressed this.  There's nothing wrong with debating Sir John's legacy, taking down statues if need be etc.

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Also, couching every revelation about past atrocities with "but what about the good things" is a form of denialism.

That's a misrepresentation of my point because I didn't do this.  I would never deny the seriousness and tragedy of these new revelations of past atrocities or try to underplay it.  I'm speaking of eyeball's knee-jerk reaction towards completely disavowing himself of Canada due to these kinds of revelations.

Racism, sexism, homophobia etc is a part of the legacy of every single government on earth.  That doesn't excuse it, it just means that our history as a country and a civilization is one of progress from a point where things weren't as just to where we've been on a continual journey over many centuries to rectify this.  Human rights in our society have been progressing since the Magna Carta.  It's logical that who we were as a society 150 years ago wasn't as just as it is today, and that's not a reason to hate our past or ourselves in their entirety, it's just to say there's times where we've been very wrong about some things that have been and still need to be rectified.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #160 on: June 07, 2021, 04:56:47 pm »
Iím beginning to think Canada needs help with this. Clearly, Canada isnít going to hold anyone responsible. We had a Truth and Reconciliation commission that happened to omit that childrenís bodies were buried in the backyard???

I think we need the International Criminal Court to look at this with Canadaís full support.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-canadian-lawyers-icc-residential-school-investigation-1.6052054

Maybe.  Clearly people and entities don't like holding themselves responsible.  The Pope has refused to apologize because he knows doing so is an admission of guilt which could help groups in Canada to sue Catholic churches in Canada.
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Online wilber

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #161 on: June 07, 2021, 05:34:51 pm »
Maybe.  Clearly people and entities don't like holding themselves responsible.  The Pope has refused to apologize because he knows doing so is an admission of guilt which could help groups in Canada to sue Catholic churches in Canada.

As more of the skeletons come out of the closet, what the Pope does or doesn't do will have little bearing on legal consequences for the church.
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Offline eyeball

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #162 on: June 07, 2021, 06:19:48 pm »
But your solution is f*** Canada as an institution in its entirety, which is totally illogical and not at all helpful, and in fact counter-productive and in many ways despicable.  Feel free to move to a country that doesn't have blood on its hands...
Canada **** itself. Please get it off my planet.

That said, if you look more carefully you'll note I said our confederation should be rejigged according to who was here first and who colonized it which btw was not Canada. Its the colony not the colonizer.  I'd suggest this time we might want to edit out the goddamn Catholic Church.

It'll take years and I doubt Canadians will even notice the difference in their lives. Fewer liars in government hopefully.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2021, 06:21:39 pm by eyeball »

Offline eyeball

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #163 on: June 07, 2021, 06:25:34 pm »
There are many people on the hard left like you that only sees the negatives in our society and governments
There are too many people from across the ideological spectrum who seem to believe that most of that which is good in our society is due to our institutions. You've got it completely backwards.
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Offline eyeball

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #164 on: June 07, 2021, 07:03:53 pm »
I'm speaking of eyeball's knee-jerk reaction towards completely disavowing himself of Canada due to these kinds of revelations.
I've been disavowing myself of what Canada is for about 25 years now. That was about the time the reality of indigenous land claims started hitting close to home.  You talk about proactively getting over losing something or fighting for something, well, my answer to losing my boat, my livelihood and almost my home, my family and my life was to dig deeper into why land claims were so necessary as to threaten all these.  Understanding why came soon enough and I learned where my anger and determination to effect a change should really be directed.

My single biggest contribution was to help capture a fisherman's 'coalition' that formed to oppose the DFO's AFS, the Aboriginal Fisheries Strategy. At the time the AFS felt like DFO's final nail in the coffin my fishery was being buried in. I didn't know it at the time but being the main spokesperson and organizer for that group put me in a position where I was able to let fall off a cliff thru neglect.  I must have known instinctively I was on the wrong side of history and I'm just bloody thankful I didn't bring even more divisiveness into my community thru unfocussed anger.

It's pretty easy for the vast majority of Canadians to let this drag on because they've never felt the effects of letting it.

I live just up the road from a native village, we don't call it the reserve anymore. I'll never forget the time almost 45 years ago this fellow my age came walking up the road one day hollering..."Its all mine...this is all mine and they're giving it all back"! He repeated this a few times and as he passed my place I asked him what was up.  He said "You didn't get the letter? Well they're giving it all back" What I asked..."Everything"! he said and wandered off. It was some 20 years before the significance of what he was saying became apparent.  He was a hereditary chief, a residential school survivor I wound up befriending and fishing and logging with on occasion.

That old saying if I'd known then what I know now often comes to mind - it always makes me wonder what's happening now that I should be paying attention to.  That's a hard learned lesson I teach my grandkids.