Author Topic: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture  (Read 2434 times)

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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #60 on: June 01, 2021, 05:13:52 pm »
I'm sure they did.  I didn't say those who ran it did.

Sure how could the architects of the residential school system who considered Indigenous people's subhuman and wanted to wipe out their entire culture and language know that the people they got to actually run the schools would take things too far.

Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #61 on: June 01, 2021, 11:09:18 pm »
Talk is cheap waldo, it doesn't matter what those Liberals said or did not say. they ignored the issue as well.
in your zeal to deflect from those Conservative leaders/MP comments; to 'both-sides' this concern, perhaps a timeline... a starting reference point... is needed. When did the 'issue you say was ignored', become an issue as recognized by both politicians and citizens for the problems/failure that was the residential school system?

still waiting member bothSidenIt wilber - still waiting!

Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #62 on: June 01, 2021, 11:24:26 pm »
Quote
...it seems the Conservatives have actively attempted to hide the issue.  In 2009 they declined funding so that bodies could be looked for.  https://globalnews.ca/news/7907424/trc-mass-graves-residential-school-federal-funding/amp/
Neither did the Liberals. The study that found the graves was funded by a provincial grant.

more 2sidenIt hey member wilber! As a backdrop reference: since 2016 the Liberal government has committed more than $50 million towards TRC 'call to action' points.

what's definitive is Harper Conservatives did refuse that linked reference to a TRC request for $1.5M to find mass graves at residential schools. The waldo would be interested in you citing reference (and context) showing the current Liberal government rebuffed a funding request by the Tk’emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation to support the process/undertaking that relied upon ground-penetrating radar to discover the Kamloops residential school mass grave - thanks in advance.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #63 on: June 01, 2021, 11:40:08 pm »
Sure how could the architects of the residential school system who considered Indigenous people's subhuman and wanted to wipe out their entire culture and language know that the people they got to actually run the schools would take things too far.

I think the architects saw aboriginals and said "these people are very poor and can't read or write and are godless heathens, we need to make them like us so they do better".  Classic white man's burden.  And then the churches said "ok we'll give them God and educate them".  I don't think the architects originally had the intention of beating kids and starving them to death and other forms of horrible neglect/abuse, but people are a-holes, especially back then, and especially when you give them power and zero accountability or oversight.  Not much different than cops who abuse their power and do racist stuff.

I'm not defending it, it was a horrible system and terribly thought out.  I think they wanted to help them (originally), at least in part, but were really stupid and ignorant about everything.  I think there were likely good and bad intentions with it all.
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #64 on: June 02, 2021, 12:05:26 am »
I think they wanted to help them (originally), at least in part, but were really stupid and ignorant about everything.

No, they clearly wanted to ethnically cleanse them by assimilating them.  I quoted JAM directly earlier saying exactly that.

I will concede it was the thing to do back then (they even wanted to assimilate French Canadians at some point) but don't kid yourself, it was NOT about helping anyone but themselves. 

Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #65 on: June 02, 2021, 12:19:28 am »
today, under the guise of 'learning from the residential school tragedy', Alberta Premier Jason Kenney came out against so-called cancel culture. Responses seem to fall into the collective groupings; either as insensitive, dismissive, divisive, misinformed, etc., OR as politically astute, bold, accurate, needed to be said, etc..

given some of the immediate and developing backlash, will Kenney double-down or opt for a weasely-like backpedal? Whether one agrees with Kenney's view/statements, with his long scripted response, Kenney was obviously responding to a set-up "softball question" - perhaps the epitome of politicizing the immediate tragedy of the mass grave discovery within the broader residential schools concern!


{per Global News} in response to a reporter's question, Premier Kenney spoke at length about Canadian history, first launching into a spiel about Canada’s first PM John A. Macdonald:

Quote
Kenney noted he co-sponsored a bill in the House of Commons to recognize a day honouring the founding father, “without whom Canada would not exist.” “I think Canada is a great historical achievement. It is a country that people all around the world seek to join as new Canadians.”

It is an imperfect country, but it is still a great country, just as John Macdonald was an imperfect man but was still a great leader. If we want to get into cancelling every figure in our history who took positions on issues at the time, that we now judge harshly and rightly in historical retrospective, but if that’s the new standard, then I think almost the entire founding leadership of our country gets cancelled.

If we go full force into cancel culture, then we’re cancelling most, if not all, of our history.

Instead, I think we should learn from our history. We should learn from our achievements, but also our failures.” He added, noting that Canada “is doing that,” noting former prime minister Stephen Harper’s residential school apology and more than $3 billion in compensation from the feds to survivors.

It’s important to learn from the greatness, the audacity of vision and the generosity of spirit” of former Canadian leaders.” Kenney explained that it’s inappropriate to focus on one or two figures who operated in a “radically different time.

If we want to get into a debate about cancelling Canadian history, we need to understand that it means all of our history.

I think that that kind of destructive spirit is not really the spirit of reconciliation. The spirit of reconciliation is to learn from the wrongs of the past, to seek to remedy them while knowing our history and moving forward together.

Offline MH

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #66 on: June 02, 2021, 04:53:07 am »
today, under the guise of 'learning from the residential school tragedy', Alberta Premier Jason Kenney came out against so-called cancel culture. Responses seem to fall into the collective groupings; either as insensitive, dismissive, divisive, misinformed, etc., OR as politically astute, bold, accurate, needed to be said, etc..

given some of the immediate and developing backlash, will Kenney double-down or opt for a weasely-like backpedal? Whether one agrees with Kenney's view/statements, with his long scripted response, Kenney was obviously responding to a set-up "softball question" - perhaps the epitome of politicizing the immediate tragedy of the mass grave discovery within the broader residential schools concern!

Isn't taking the statues down an acknowledgement of history?  Isn't it the result of collective discussion and an agreement not to commemorate that part of our past that still burdens us?

I would call this terrible timing and inappropriate, but I am not the target of such things.

Offline wilber

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #67 on: June 02, 2021, 09:28:39 am »
Isn't taking the statues down an acknowledgement of history?  Isn't it the result of collective discussion and an agreement not to commemorate that part of our past that still burdens us?

I would call this terrible timing and inappropriate, but I am not the target of such things.

So what parts do you commentate? John A may have originated the schools but he also did more to build this country than any other PM.
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Offline MH

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #68 on: June 02, 2021, 09:39:14 am »
So what parts do you commentate? John A may have originated the schools but he also did more to build this country than any other PM.

Commemoration and celebration is a feature of popular sentiment.  The statues will come back at some point, I think.

Otherwise, we can never celebrate anyone.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #69 on: June 02, 2021, 09:49:39 am »
I think the architects saw aboriginals and said "these people are very poor and can't read or write and are godless heathens, we need to make them like us so they do better".  Classic white man's burden.  And then the churches said "ok we'll give them God and educate them".  I don't think the architects originally had the intention of beating kids and starving them to death and other forms of horrible neglect/abuse, but people are a-holes, especially back then, and especially when you give them power and zero accountability or oversight.  Not much different than cops who abuse their power and do racist stuff.

I'm not defending it, it was a horrible system and terribly thought out.  I think they wanted to help them (originally), at least in part, but were really stupid and ignorant about everything.  I think there were likely good and bad intentions with it all.

Every monster in history can be said to have had good intentions if you parse them finely enough. That's not an excuse.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #70 on: June 02, 2021, 09:51:36 am »
Commemoration and celebration is a feature of popular sentiment.  The statues will come back at some point, I think.

Otherwise, we can never celebrate anyone.

Would that be so bad?

Offline MH

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #71 on: June 02, 2021, 09:54:50 am »
Would that be so bad?

I don't know.  What do you think ?

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #72 on: June 02, 2021, 09:57:16 am »
I don't know.  What do you think ?

I think the issue is less about celebrating people and who gets celebrated and who decides.

Even if one were to concede the point that people like Kenney make that people like JAM are part of our history, it's still a specific version of history that's being commemorated and that's a problem to me.

Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #73 on: June 02, 2021, 10:51:57 am »
Talk is cheap waldo, it doesn't matter what those Liberals said or did not say. they ignored the issue as well.
in your zeal to deflect from those Conservative leaders/MP comments; to 'both-sides' this concern, perhaps a timeline... a starting reference point... is needed. When did the 'issue you say was ignored', become an issue as recognized by both politicians and citizens for the problems/failure that was the residential school system?

with the underlying reference that member wilber chooses to ignore the aforementioned posted request:

Liberal Prime Ministers: Pearson & Trudeau governing from 1963-1979



from the TRC final report itself:

Quote
The road to closure, 1969

In 1968, the federal government drastically restructured the residential school system by dividing the schools into residences and day schools, each with a principal or administrator. In June of the following year, the federal government took direct control over all the schools in southern Canada. Because churches were allowed to continue to appoint the residence administrators, their presence continued in many schools in the coming years. They were, however, no longer directly responsible for the facilities.
.
Having assumed control over the southern Canadian schools in 1969, the federal government commenced what would prove to be a protracted process of closing the system down. According to the Indian Affairs annual report for 1968–69, the department was responsible for sixty residences. Two years later, the number was down to forty-five.

Offline the_squid

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #74 on: June 02, 2021, 11:04:31 am »
I would’ve preferred a plaque go up, or another monument giving some context.  Or, just take it down.  I don’t really care.

These people are in history books, they’re in museums….   Why do they really need to be on the street corner anyways?