Author Topic: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture  (Read 2447 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #255 on: June 25, 2021, 07:10:46 pm »
You think this school was abandoned 100 years ago and just forgotten? 

It operated until 1996. You don’t think someone maybe knew something?  That maybe there were records?

Yes I do think people knew things, so let's find out what they are.
I don't know why you are picking a fight.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #256 on: June 25, 2021, 08:02:30 pm »
Not directly….   But you seem to throw out tidbits of “information” that seems to sort of maybe kind of justifies what happened. 

Otherwise, why bring those up if you think they’re irrelevant anyway?

The deaths of the kids is bad but probably not quite as bad as it seems because as wilbur says child mortality was much more common back in the day.  That's not defending anything just pointing out facts and putting things in proper perspective.  It would be interesting to know the mortality rate of residential school kids vs the average rate throughout the decades.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #257 on: June 25, 2021, 08:05:09 pm »
It isn't about what has been said, it's about what hasn't been. I'm just saying it. Hopefully it will all come out in the wash and this thread won't worthy of the GRRRR/ OUTRAGE CULTURE topic.

If anyone said these facts publicly they'd be labeled a racist.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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Offline eyeball

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #258 on: June 26, 2021, 09:40:25 am »
The deaths of the kids is bad but probably not quite as bad as it seems
It's actually worse due to ongoing efforts to cover up and downplay what happened and the slow dragged reconciliation process only adds insult to injury.

Only two burial sites into this and churches are already being burned to the ground. We probably haven't seen anything yet.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #259 on: June 26, 2021, 11:21:43 am »
The deaths of the kids is bad but probably not quite as bad as it seems because as wilbur says child mortality was much more common back in the day.  That's not defending anything just pointing out facts and putting things in proper perspective.  It would be interesting to know the mortality rate of residential school kids vs the average rate throughout the decades.

I expect the rates would be higher in the schools, possibly a lot higher but we don't know that for a fact yet. Eyeball is right about the efforts to downplay and ignore this for years.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline eyeball

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #260 on: June 26, 2021, 01:48:29 pm »
I wonder how long it'll be until calls to defund Catholic schools start? We might as well be sending money to ISIS.

Diddling with kid's minds is on par with diddling their bodies afaic.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #261 on: June 27, 2021, 03:43:28 pm »
They aren't irrelevant, perspective is important because assuming every grave was a result of abuse is not justified. There will plenty of evidence found that will condemn the system, there is no need to make any up.

The children were victims of an abusive system, ergo, they were victims of abuse.

Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #262 on: June 30, 2021, 11:11:54 am »
Only two burial sites into this and churches are already being burned to the ground. We probably haven't seen anything yet.

as the waldo is aware - recent related Catholic church vandalism has occurred throughout B.C., Alberta & Saskatchewan; up until now... 4 on-reserve churches in BC were burned. I understand this is the first off-reserve church fire-raising: Century-old Catholic church in Morinville, Alta., destroyed by fire



it's a process... a journey!
« Last Edit: June 30, 2021, 01:27:06 pm by waldo »

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #263 on: July 05, 2021, 12:18:18 am »
as the waldo is aware - recent related Catholic church vandalism has occurred throughout B.C., Alberta & Saskatchewan; up until now... 4 on-reserve churches in BC were burned. I understand this is the first off-reserve church fire-raising

I understand the anger, but man this isn't the way to go about things.  BLM riots have headed north of the border.

Riots/arson are a tell-tale sign that people don't feel justice is being served, so they feel their only choice is to take matters into their own hands.  Exactly the same happened with the BLM riots.  The solution is to finally hold the churches accountable.  The  Catholic Church is a true piece of crap for so many reasons.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline eyeball

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #264 on: July 05, 2021, 06:19:57 pm »
I understand the anger, but man this isn't the way to go about things.  BLM riots have headed north of the border.

Riots/arson are a tell-tale sign that people don't feel justice is being served, so they feel their only choice is to take matters into their own hands.  Exactly the same happened with the BLM riots.  The solution is to finally hold the churches accountable.  The  Catholic Church is a true piece of crap for so many reasons.
Violence is so inevitable in the face of such institutional intransigence it almost borders on appropriateness. I suspect the intransigence is born of the fear that indigenous people similarly abused around the planet will also demand accountability and reconciliation from past abusers. I hope and believe the inevitability of international systems of justice evolving to accommodate these indigenous aspirations will ultimately benefit all humanity. It'll take decades but a revolution is definitely on.

Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #265 on: July 05, 2021, 06:45:57 pm »
Violence is so inevitable in the face of such institutional intransigence it almost borders on appropriateness.
[/quote]

"institutional intransigence"... in the face of Truth & Reconciliation - really?

Offline eyeball

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #266 on: July 06, 2021, 12:04:20 am »


"institutional intransigence"... in the face of Truth & Reconciliation - really?
Really. You're saying the Vatican and Pope have reconciled? Horseshit they have.

In any case would it matter if ISIS apologized and reconciled?
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Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #267 on: July 06, 2021, 12:25:58 am »
Really. You're saying the Vatican and Pope have reconciled? Horseshit they have.

In any case would it matter if ISIS apologized and reconciled?

make up your mind on the need/value of a Catholic Church apology! By the by:

Quote
The Canadian Catholic Church did not have a collective role in the residential schools; decisions were often made by individual dioceses and orders. Pope Benedict XVI met Aboriginal leaders in 2009 and expressed his sorrow for the experiences of the residential school survivors. Many critics argue that this was not a full apology. Individual bishops did apologize, following the example of the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate. This order, in charge of the largest number of the residential schools, offered this apology in 1991:
Quote
Next year, 1992, marks the five hundredth anniversary of the arrival of Europeans on the shores of America. As large scale celebrations are being prepared to mark this occasion, the Oblates of Canada wish, through this apology, to show solidarity with many Native people in Canada whose history has been adversely affected by this event. . . . As well, recent criticisms of Indian residential schools and the exposure of instances of physical and sexual abuse within these schools call for such an apology. . . . We apologize for the part we played in the cultural, ethnic, linguistic, and religious imperialism that was part of the mentality with which the Peoples of Europe first met the aboriginal peoples and which consistently has lurked behind the way the Native peoples of Canada have been treated by civil governments and by the churches. We were, naively, part of this mentality and were, in fact, often a key player in its implementation. We recognize that this mentality has, from the beginning, and ever since, continually threatened the cultural, linguistic, and religious traditions of the Native peoples.

We recognize that many of the problems that beset Native communities today—high unemployment, alcoholism, family breakdown, domestic violence, spiraling suicide rates, lack of healthy self-esteem—are not so much the result of personal failure as they are the result of centuries of systemic imperialism. Any people stripped of its traditions as well as of its pride falls victim to precisely these social ills. For the part that we played, however inadvertent and naive that participation might have been, in the setting up and maintaining of a system that stripped others of not only their lands but also of their cultural, linguistic, and religious traditions we sincerely apologize. . . .

In sympathy with recent criticisms of Native Residential Schools, we wish to apologize for the part we played in the setting up and the maintaining of those schools. We apologize for the existence of the schools themselves, recognizing that the biggest abuse was not what happened in the schools, but that the schools themselves happened . . . that the primal bond inherent within families was violated as a matter of policy, that children were usurped from their natural communities, and that, implicitly and explicitly, these schools operated out of the premise that European languages, traditions, and religious practices were superior to native languages, traditions, and religious practices. The residential schools were an attempt to assimilate aboriginal peoples and we played an important role in the unfolding of this design. For this we sincerely apologize.

We wish to apologize in a very particular way for the instances of physical and sexual abuse that occurred in those schools. . . . Finally, we wish to apologize as well for our past dismissal of many of the riches of native religious tradition. We broke some of your peace pipes and we considered some of your sacred practices as pagan and superstitious. This too had its origins in the colonial mentality, our European superiority complex, which was grounded in a particular view of history. We apologize for this blindness and disrespect. . . .

. . . Sincerity alone does not set people above their place in history. Thousands of persons operated out of this mentality and gave their lives in dedication to an ideal that, while sincere in its intent, was, at one point, naively linked to a certain cultural, religious, linguistic, and ethnic superiority complex. These men and women sincerely believed that their vocations and actions were serving both God and the best interests of the Native Peoples to whom they were ministering. History has, partially, rendered a cruel judgment on their efforts. . . .

Recognizing that within every sincere apology there is implicit the promise of conversion to a new way of acting. We, the Oblates of Canada, wish to pledge ourselves to a renewed relationship with Native Peoples which, while very much in line with the sincerity and intent of our past relationship, seeks to move beyond past mistakes to a new level of respect and mutuality …

Reverend Doug Crosby OMI
President of the Oblate Conference of Canada
On behalf of the 1200 Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate living and ministering in Canada
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Offline eyeball

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #268 on: July 06, 2021, 09:25:49 am »
make up your mind on the need/value of a Catholic Church apology!
The apology needs to come from the top to give it the value indigenous people deserve - recall they've made this a global issue.

I'm not surprised to see you trot out a couple of underlings to take the pressure off the top of the church - it reflects the same style of political and institutional accountability that you normally champion and defend.
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Offline waldo

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Re: Canadian-Aboriginal Culture
« Reply #269 on: July 07, 2021, 12:51:00 am »
The apology needs to come from the top to give it the value indigenous people deserve

of course the papacy had nothing to do with the related policies or their implementation... and, again: The Canadian Catholic Church did not have a collective role in the residential schools; decisions were often made by individual dioceses and orders. Individual bishops did apologize, following the apology example of the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate - the order in charge of the largest number of the residential schools.

I'm not surprised to see you trot out a couple of underlings to take the pressure off the top of the church - it reflects the same style of political and institutional accountability that you normally champion and defend.

p i s s off! Your nonsensical "underlings" designation ignores the positioning and role of the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate. By the by, I must have missed you calling out the United Church... and the Archbishop of Canterbury no less!