Author Topic: Canada to Increase Defence Spending  (Read 6187 times)

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Offline Robert

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2017, 08:42:37 pm »

Canada’s spending on the military is about right, except previous governments haven’t spent on new infrastructure and equipment.

Unfortunately, infrastructure spending is going to have to increase for the next decade or so, but hopefully it can be reduced again after the capital costs of all the equipment that needs replacing has been spent.  Canada doesn’t need the most expensive/latest technology.

Canada also doesn’t need a large military.  1% of GDP to maintain what we have should be fine.

Some of your post seems like self pity and comes across as a bit whiny....   Canada loves its military and is proud of its history...  that doesn’t mean a blank cheque.

I'm curious just how do you compute on what the proper spending limit is, i know you've heard the old and tired come back do you have military time, do you have experience running a large dept or military agency, I'm curious because most alot of Canadians have said the same thing...with out know the first thing about the mission, the people, the equipment, basically they say what you just told me, stop whinning and whimpering...

No where in my post did i say anything about Canada needing a large military , 65,000 is not large by any means....it's actually very small....compare to most of our allieds....Maintaining what we have means what to you, even the liberals have acknowledged that 1 % is not enough, even when the use creative accounting....it is not enough.....so how do come up with those figures, i'm not asking to be a dick, i am curious how you came up with those numbers.

and ya there is a little self pity in there,but not for me, well maybe a little for me...... but for Canadians like you that believe that everything is OK and the sky is blue over our military....Canada does not love it's military or it's history or we would be teaching it in our schools , we would have people actually taking our military seriously, meaning producing a valid white paper and funding that paper, what ever it may look like....now we have a dept that has a extremely hard time doing basic stuff such as moving people and equipment....but everything is peachy when it is not....travel to an army base and you'll see fields of rusting equipment because there are no parts to fix them, or they are not fit for highway use the story goes down hill from there....

No blank cheque....There has never been a blank cheque, NEVER....like i said if you knew the true condition of our military you might be singing another tune....

Offline Robert

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2017, 08:45:56 pm »
Agreed. So let's take the F 35 off the shopping list. We don't need a "stealth" fighter.

You say we don't need one, but why ? is it to expensive, or it is not in any of our doctrine, or mandate, what is the determining factor....

Offline Robert

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2017, 08:49:24 pm »
Canada has 2 massive oceans protecting us from most countries, plus our biggest ally the world's mighty superpower below us to help defend us.  We don't need a big military to defend our borders.  We do need a military of course, and it's a big country & waters to defend, as well as arctic sovereignty to worry about.  But really, we don't need to be going overseas very much at all, so let's take that money and built up our defenses here and a modest team to react to international security threats if need be.

That would work if our politicians would agree and do just that, but you don't get any world points by staying at home....nor do you fulfill any alliances or defensive pacts we have signed on for...

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2017, 10:01:41 am »
Canada has 2 massive oceans protecting us from most countries, plus our biggest ally the world's mighty superpower below us to help defend us.  We don't need a big military to defend our borders.

If you cede protection of your sovereignty to another nation you are ceding the sovereignty of your territory to them. They can protect it or not as they choose. You think Trump would stop Russia from grabbing territory in the North we claim? Not bloody likely!
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2017, 10:04:32 am »

Canada’s spending on the military is about right, except previous governments haven’t spent on new infrastructure and equipment.

Nor has this one. And the commitment signed by the government is to meet a 2% GDP goal.
The Americans have already suggested those who don't make efforts to get there are going to find themselves out in the cold.

Quote
Some of your post seems like self pity and comes across as a bit whiny....   Canada loves its military and is proud of its history...  that doesn’t mean a blank cheque.

Liberals despise the military and always have. They despise anyone in uniform. Of course they particularly despise anyone who complains about ANYTHING while they are in charge.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline JMT

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #50 on: November 28, 2017, 10:22:48 am »
Nor has this one. And the commitment signed by the government is to meet a 2% GDP goal.
The Americans have already suggested those who don't make efforts to get there are going to find themselves out in the cold.

An empty threat if there ever was one.

Offline Robert

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #51 on: November 28, 2017, 02:20:40 pm »
An empty threat if there ever was one.

Yes we all know it is empty, but it has given everyone an excuse to move in that direction, to bad it was not an empty threat.....

Offline Omni

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #52 on: November 28, 2017, 02:42:04 pm »
Nor has this one. And the commitment signed by the government is to meet a 2% GDP goal.
The Americans have already suggested those who don't make efforts to get there are going to find themselves out in the cold.

Liberals despise the military and always have. They despise anyone in uniform. Of course they particularly despise anyone who complains about ANYTHING while they are in charge.

Wrong again sir argus. Maybe do a little homework from time to time eh.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/support-for-caf-1.3929956

Offline JMT

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2017, 03:17:14 pm »
Yes we all know it is empty, but it has given everyone an excuse to move in that direction, to bad it was not an empty threat.....

What exactly do you think has changed as a result of that threat?

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2017, 04:11:09 pm »
An empty threat if there ever was one.

That supposes Trump cares about consequences that don't personally affect him. It's clear he does not.
And the Americans have publicly stated they don't support our claims on our northern borders anyway.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline JMT

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #55 on: November 28, 2017, 04:20:34 pm »
That supposes Trump cares about consequences that don't personally affect him. It's clear he does not.
And the Americans have publicly stated they don't support our claims on our northern borders anyway.

Actually, that's not true.  The US has always recognized Canada's claim to our northern territory.  They simply dispute (quite possibly correctly) our attempt to call the waters between those lands, including the Northwest Passage, internal waterways.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #56 on: November 28, 2017, 04:22:17 pm »
Wrong again sir argus. Maybe do a little homework from time to time eh.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/support-for-caf-1.3929956

Perhaps I should have said conservatives as opposed to Conservatives.

It was the Trudeau Liberals who slashed and burned the military to begin with, during good times. The military is less than half the size it was in the late sixties. Mulroney wasn't a lot better, but he was a Quebec PC - ie, Liberal in all but name, and in bad economic times. Then Chretien sliced and diced the military even more, even after they started pulling in record surpluses - until a public outcry over the deaths in Afghanistan forced them to hurriedly buy some gear the military had been begging for for so many years. The Harper Conservatives voiced a lot of care and concern for the military, and started out all right, but once they became fixated on the deficit and the Liberals began to score points over Afghanistan (completely ignoring that it was THEIR mission) that went right out the window. Harper was not so much a conservative as a political pragmatist, after all, easily ready to abandon any principal for electoral advantage. That was one of the reasons conservatives began to lose enthusiasm for him and his government. Now we have another Liberal government, and the good times are rolling, with low unemployment and a great economy, yet what are they doing? Increasing the deficit, but robbing from the military again, cutting all procurement they can.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #57 on: November 28, 2017, 04:23:30 pm »
Actually, that's not true.  The US has always recognized Canada's claim to our northern territory.  They simply dispute (quite possibly correctly) our attempt to call the waters between those lands, including the Northwest Passage, internal waterways.

Canada, Russia, Denmark and others have laid claims to the waters in the north in hopes that global warming will allow access to a treasure trove of resources. The US does not support Canadian claims there and would be unlikely to do a thing if the Russians simply decided to take whatever they wanted.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Robert

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #58 on: November 28, 2017, 06:20:29 pm »
Wrong again sir argus. Maybe do a little homework from time to time eh.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/support-for-caf-1.3929956

There are plenty of news articles out there showing support in one form or another, we can not deny the decade of darkness, what we do know is that both major parties have striped our military when it was convenient for them to do so....what is sad we watched from the side lines and did nothing....

Offline Robert

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Re: Canada to Increase Defence Spending
« Reply #59 on: November 28, 2017, 06:25:44 pm »
What exactly do you think has changed as a result of that threat?
I think for a brief moment , Canadians got a glimps of the the current state of our forces, it also forced the liberal government to do some creative accounting, plus make promises they may or may not keep, plus it forced the fighter replacement project back into the light. there was a time i thought we might even get 18 new fighters, but i think that is on hold, for how long not sure ....I think it will become an election platform, maybe not a major one, but atleast it will be one....some progress is better than none....