Author Topic: Canada gunz  (Read 8227 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: Canada gunz
« Reply #75 on: May 07, 2020, 11:26:37 pm »


No, once again you're putting words in my mouth...  again.  Stop straw-manning.

I said "let's do both".   ::)

So why are you only advocating getting rid of guns? I'm not in favour of getting rid of high performance vehicles but I think if one wants to use one, they should have to demonstrate competency and have a license that is endorsed to use one. In BC a person with a novice license can insure and drive a 500+ hp vehicle capable of doing over 200 MPH. That is a lot more insane than a person who has been properly vetted and examined owning a firearm.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Canada gunz
« Reply #76 on: May 07, 2020, 11:37:31 pm »
People are concerned, but should they be? There's a lot of hype about mass shootings, but they are incredibly rare in Canada. More Canadians die from lightning bolts than from mass shootings.

$12 billion to get rid of the *legal* guns in Canada. Not the ones that are used in the large majority of homicides.

Maybe a few, possibly.

Do you think that government money is unlimited? Do you think that given the enormous expense you're proposing vs the very minimal number of lives that might be saved, the money could be better spent in other ways?

What you're proposing is extremely expensive, extremely divisive, and there's no rational argument to suggest that it would result in much if any saving of lives.

I hope to live on an acreage in the hills someday. If I do, I hope that on the day I find a grizzly or cougar in my yard, I hope that I don't have to put my faith in a single-shot rifle.


 -k

Hopefully you're a better shot by the time you get there, but if not, how long do you think it will take to crank a new round into that .303? Not very long and your aim will be much better than an AR 15 which jumps around every time you pull the trigger. Believe me, I know.

Offline kimmy

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Re: Canada gunz
« Reply #77 on: May 07, 2020, 11:44:57 pm »
Hopefully you're a better shot by the time you get there, but if not, how long do you think it will take to crank a new round into that .303? Not very long and your aim will be much better than an AR 15 which jumps around every time you pull the trigger. Believe me, I know.

yes yes tell us again about the time you burned your fingers on your AR-15, Walter Mitty.

It's not legal to use an AR-15 or any other Restricted rifle anywhere outside a registered shooting range, and it hasn't been for decades.

I don't own one, never have had one, and never intended to. 

Also those little cartridges very powerful and aren't suitable for shooting bear, or anything else larger than a human. 

Also those little cartridges generate very little recoil, which makes me think you must have arms like overcooked spaghetti if it jumps around while you're shooting it.  Go ahead, flex your little pipe-cleaner arms for us, Commando-Man.

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Offline waldo

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Re: Canada gunz
« Reply #78 on: May 08, 2020, 12:01:55 am »
... by moving to irrational gun control measures.

I'll ask again - what supposedly "rational" uses of assault style firearms will be curtailed by this latest most sensible gun control measure?

Offline Omni

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Re: Canada gunz
« Reply #79 on: May 08, 2020, 12:04:36 am »
yes yes tell us again about the time you burned your fingers on your AR-15, Walter Mitty.

It's not legal to use an AR-15 or any other Restricted rifle anywhere outside a registered shooting range, and it hasn't been for decades.

I don't own one, never have had one, and never intended to. 

Also those little cartridges very powerful and aren't suitable for shooting bear, or anything else larger than a human. 

Also those little cartridges generate very little recoil, which makes me think you must have arms like overcooked spaghetti if it jumps around while you're shooting it.  Go ahead, flex your little pipe-cleaner arms for us, Commando-Man.

 -k

Having had training on such weapons I'm well aware of why we don't need, or should have them here, other than in the hands of teh military in case there's another war. Otherwise you don't need something that can get so hot as to burn your hands, especially if your such a bad shot you can't take down a deer with one or two rounds. Apparently you're not a hunter.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Canada gunz
« Reply #80 on: May 08, 2020, 11:55:10 am »
So why are you only advocating getting rid of guns?

What do you mean “advocating”?   If someone started a thread about driver testing, I’d be in favour of stricter regulations for that too.


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I'm not in favour of getting rid of high performance vehicles but I think if one wants to use one, they should have to demonstrate competency and have a license that is endorsed to use one. In BC a person with a novice license can insure and drive a 500+ hp vehicle capable of doing over 200 MPH.

Me too.

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That is a lot more insane than a person who has been properly vetted and examined owning a firearm.

If only it were so simple.  Law abiding citizens abiding by the law and everyone is happy and the criminals will get guns anyway. 

Unfortunately for that argument, studies conclude that the ease of access to guns is the driver for gun-related deaths.  More legal guns available = more deaths.  So, to me, it would be sensible to restrict access as much as we possibly can while still maintaining hunting and shooting.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 12:09:46 pm by the_squid »

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Canada gunz
« Reply #81 on: May 08, 2020, 12:08:19 pm »
People are concerned, but should they be? There's a lot of hype about mass shootings, but they are incredibly rare in Canada. More Canadians die from lightning bolts than from mass shootings.

Yes.  I think they should be concerned.  22 people being mowed down with some ease should be concerning to us. 

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$12 billion to get rid of the *legal* guns in Canada. Not the ones that are used in the large majority of homicides.

Yes.  Legal guns made illegal.  That’s how this would work.  The $12B is your number.  I have no idea what the real number would be. 

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Maybe a few, possibly.

I think it might save more than a few.  Easy access to “legal” guns means access to illegal guns is easier too.  Why can’t you go out and easily get an automatic weapon On the black market in this country?  Because they haven’t been available for decades.  It’s not impossible, but it’s not easy either.  That same thing would happen eventually to handguns and guns with magazines under The Squid Plan. 

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Do you think that government money is unlimited? Do you think that given the enormous expense you're proposing vs the very minimal number of lives that might be saved, the money could be better spent in other ways?

No and no.  I think this would be a very good program and would help more than you think it would.

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What you're proposing is extremely expensive, extremely divisive, and there's no rational argument to suggest that it would result in much if any saving of lives.

Expensive?  Sure.  But we can do it with a 1% GST hike.  That’s not so bad. 

Divisive?  Well...  why would it be divisive?  This is what I don’t get.  The Squid Plan would still allow hunters to hunt and shooters to shoot.  What is divisive about that?

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I hope to live on an acreage in the hills someday. If I do, I hope that on the day I find a grizzly or cougar in my yard, I hope that I don't have to put my faith in a single-shot rifle.

Total BS argument.  I now many, many people who live in grizzly areas who have grizz in their yards who don’t have guns and don’t start blasting at bears when they show up.

Cougars?  You’re more likely to be shot by your neighbour thinking you’re a bear than to be attacked by a cougar. 

People hike in areas with cougars and bears with nothing but granola bars and a little bell and virtually none of them are eaten. 

Nice try.

Offline wilber

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Re: Canada gunz
« Reply #82 on: May 08, 2020, 12:36:37 pm »
What do you mean “advocating”?   If someone started a thread about driver testing, I’d be in favour of stricter regulations for that too.



But no one ever does, certainly not people foaming at the mouth about guns. That's why I say it is about ideology, not comparable body counts and that is why I say people put different values on peoples lives according to how they died, as well as putting different values on the rights and recreations of others.

I'm not a fan of semi automatic weapons but in 2018 there were 249 firearms homicides in Canada, 56 were from rifles and shot guns and 143 from hand guns (90% gang bangers). Hardly an epidemic.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Canada gunz
« Reply #83 on: May 08, 2020, 01:04:34 pm »
But no one ever does, certainly not people foaming at the mouth about guns. That's why I say it is about ideology, not comparable body counts and that is why I say people put different values on peoples lives according to how they died, as well as putting different values on the rights and recreations of others.

I'm not a fan of semi automatic weapons but in 2018 there were 249 firearms homicides in Canada, 56 were from rifles and shot guns and 143 from hand guns (90% gang bangers). Hardly an epidemic.

And the recent mass shooting in N.S. that left 22 dead was accomplished with 2 semi automatic long guns and 2 semi automatic pistols. I'll bet the loved ones of those 22 are even less fans of semi automatic weapons than you.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Canada gunz
« Reply #84 on: May 08, 2020, 01:36:47 pm »
But no one ever does, certainly not people foaming at the mouth about guns.

Not true.  There are lots of road-safety advocates.  I’m not an advocate for anything.  I’m just giving my opinion on an internet forum.  Not sure why you think I’m a foaming at the mouth advocate.

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That's why I say it is about ideology, not comparable body counts and that is why I say people put different values on peoples lives according to how they died, as well as putting different values on the rights and recreations of others.

Except the Squid Plan took all those into account...  it still allows for hunting and sport shooting AND would save lives.

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I'm not a fan of semi automatic weapons but in 2018 there were 249 firearms homicides in Canada, 56 were from rifles and shot guns and 143 from hand guns (90% gang bangers). Hardly an epidemic.

I never said it was an epidemic.  But someone can mow down 22 people quite easily with semi-auto handguns and long guns, which is what happened in N.S. 

Yes, they say he got them illegally.  That doesn’t mean that these types of guns should be able to be gotten legally though.  I want to make it more difficult for these to be used in shootings.  Less legal guns available, better border security.

The Trudeau government’s recent ban is window dressing and won’t do anything to reduce gun violence. 
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 04:08:58 pm by the_squid »
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Offline wilber

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Re: Canada gunz
« Reply #85 on: May 09, 2020, 12:13:24 pm »
Not true.  There are lots of road-safety advocates.  I’m not an advocate for anything.  I’m just giving my opinion on an internet forum.  Not sure why you think I’m a foaming at the mouth advocate.



Have any of them ever advocated banning particular vehicles and having the government buy them back?


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Except the Squid Plan took all those into account...  it still allows for hunting and sport shooting AND would save lives.


Will the cost of buying them back justify the number of lives that might be saved. The "if it saves one life it is worth it" is one of the most ingenuous statements there is. We prioritize spending versus lives all the time and with good reason.  Who could possibly justify spending a billion dollars to save one life if hundreds or thousands could be saved if that money was spent differently.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Canada gunz
« Reply #86 on: May 09, 2020, 12:41:10 pm »
Canada has had three incidents of multiple shootings using this type of weapon in the past thirty years. Three, and we want to spend tens of millions to buy them back from legal owners?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline wilber

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Re: Canada gunz
« Reply #87 on: May 09, 2020, 02:44:49 pm »
And the recent mass shooting in N.S. that left 22 dead was accomplished with 2 semi automatic long guns and 2 semi automatic pistols. I'll bet the loved ones of those 22 are even less fans of semi automatic weapons than you.

I’m not a fan of them at all but that doesn’t equal wanting them banned.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Canada gunz
« Reply #88 on: May 09, 2020, 04:20:33 pm »
Have any of them ever advocated banning particular vehicles and having the government buy them back?

Not that I know of.  But, once again, you’re ignoring that I never called for a ban on guns.

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Will the cost of buying them back justify the number of lives that might be saved. The "if it saves one life it is worth it" is one of the most ingenuous statements there is. We prioritize spending versus lives all the time and with good reason.  Who could possibly justify spending a billion dollars to save one life if hundreds or thousands could be saved if that money was spent differently.

Yes, it would probably be worth it to prevent the potential for mass shootings.

Canada has had three incidents of multiple shootings using this type of weapon in the past thirty years. Three, and we want to spend tens of millions to buy them back from legal owners?

I think it’s money well spent. It also makes it more difficult to obtain guns illegally when there are fewer legal guns of that type around.

I’m not a fan of them at all but that doesn’t equal wanting them banned.

I didn’t see that Omni called for a ban of all guns.  I could be wrong.

Offline Omni

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Re: Canada gunz
« Reply #89 on: May 09, 2020, 04:52:28 pm »
Not that I know of.  But, once again, you’re ignoring that I never called for a ban on guns.

Yes, it would probably be worth it to prevent the potential for mass shootings.

I think it’s money well spent. It also makes it more difficult to obtain guns illegally when there are fewer legal guns of that type around.

I didn’t see that Omni called for a ban of all guns.  I could be wrong.

No I didn't suggest a ban on all guns. I grew up out in the country and used to go hunting birds, deer etc. at the appropriate times of the year. I had a 12 guage and a .303 and they did the job. I can't say I ever enjoyed killing anything but of course if you like meat, it has to come from somewhere. And who doesn't like a fresh venison steak! Then some years later I ended up at Blackwater on a course that involved training on a whole bunch of different kind of guns, none of which you'd ever need to get meat on the table. If I thought I needed an AR15 to shoot a deer then I would admit I am one **** up hunter and stay home. I'm fine with the first type of guns being available to responsible people who may have the opportunity to go into the woods or even shoot a popcan off a fence post for fun. The latter type should be completely unavailable unless you are in the military and need to be prepared to kill people who want to kill you.