Author Topic: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party  (Read 239 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2018, 11:54:29 am »
The Act was a private members bill resulting from a campaign promise made by Harper. It wasn't a "secret agenda". Regardless  of how he voted, he was PM for another seven years and never raised the issue again. We will have to wait and see Scheer's platform.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2018, 12:14:47 pm »
Bernier hasn't left himself a lot of time to get a whole new party together given the date of the next election. I heard an interview with Steven Fletcher who served in Harper's cabinet and he claims the party is split and Maxine could end up with significant support from half the party. When asked directly if he would join Bernier he wouldn't say one way or another. He did conclude though that the whole issue was going to help the Liberals the most. 

Offline chilipeppers

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Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2018, 01:48:37 pm »
The Act was a private members bill resulting from a campaign promise made by Harper. It wasn't a "secret agenda". Regardless  of how he voted, he was PM for another seven years and never raised the issue again. We will have to wait and see Scheer's platform.
Andrew Scheer has allready made it clear he will not impose his religious beliefs on Canadians so anyone saying otherwise is just fear mongering as they did with Harper. 

Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2018, 02:14:08 pm »
Andrew Scheer has allready made it clear he will not impose his religious beliefs on Canadians so anyone saying otherwise is just fear mongering as they did with Harper.
Still, they have every right not to vote for him for that reason though, just as people can choose not to vote for the NDP for fear their leader is a religious extremist.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2018, 02:31:56 pm »
Still, they have every right not to vote for him for that reason though, just as people can choose not to vote for the NDP for fear their leader is a religious extremist.

No one ever mentions Singh's religion, though, and how it might impact any government he might lead. I don't think I've even mentioned it in that context.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline wilber

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Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2018, 03:56:38 pm »
Andrew Scheer has allready made it clear he will not impose his religious beliefs on Canadians so anyone saying otherwise is just fear mongering as they did with Harper.

I tend to agree. Chrétien is a practicing Catholic but he never tried to impose either his religious views or the church’s doctrine on these issues.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2018, 07:38:05 am »
No one ever mentions Singh's religion, though, and how it might impact any government he might lead. I don't think I've even mentioned it in that context.
That's the only thing I've ever heard mentioned about him. I don't even know his name because people just call him the new guy with the turban and I know who they're talking about.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 07:39:50 am by Bubbermiley »

Offline SirJohn

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Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2018, 09:09:01 am »
That's the only thing I've ever heard mentioned about him. I don't even know his name because people just call him the new guy with the turban and I know who they're talking about.

No, his turban, his religion is brought up in the context of his continuing interest and campaigning for Sikh separatism and his associating with some people who praise terrorists (though Liberal hands are not clean there either). This guy has spent a great deal of time on the subject, including flying over to India numerous times to defend Sikh terrorist suspects in Indian courts. All of which helps to reinforce the sense of 'other' about him, and questions about just where his loyalties lie.

But no one, as far as I know, has actually asked him questions about his Sikh religious beliefs and how they might impact his behaviour and what laws he might enact should he ever become PM.

Btw interesting that a guy running a party which believes deeply in diversity supports separatism for HIS people in India. Apparently the grand diversity there is unappealing.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
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Offline MH

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Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2018, 09:23:29 am »
1) No, his turban, his religion is brought up in the context of his continuing interest and campaigning for Sikh separatism and his associating with some people who praise terrorists (though Liberal hands are not clean there either). 

2) But no one, as far as I know, has actually asked him questions about his Sikh religious beliefs and how they might impact his behaviour and what laws he might enact should he ever become PM.

3) Btw interesting that a guy running a party which believes deeply in diversity supports separatism for HIS people in India. Apparently the grand diversity there is unappealing.
1) Continuing ?  Not sure about that.
2) I'm going to assume you missed this and that it was not a fib on your part but this was a huge story early on:

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-march-16-2018-1.4577977/jagmeet-singh-s-view-of-sikh-separatism-under-scrutiny-after-appearances-at-rallies-1.4578161

Terry Milewski covered the Air India bombing and seems to have a personal interest in the topic.

3) Separatism and multiculturalism are separate but related.  Do you expect Israel to be 100% multicultural ?  I don't.  But Canada can do that.  There are certain places where people need self-determination for various reasons.  The so-called 'new world' was built on immigration and people leaving protestant, catholic, and other religious and cultural dominations.

That all being said, I do believe scrutiny of Christian politicians is considered to be ok, different somehow than others.  Example:

Even beyond Quebec, religiosity is rarely addressed in the public square (Stephen Harper's habit of punctuating his speeches with "God bless Canada" being a notable exception).


https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wherry-jagmeet-singh-1.4119920

But... it's qualitative.  Could a Muslim Candidate for MP punctuate his speeches with Allah Akbar ?  Uh, no.  But would a Muslim candidate's support for pro-life positions be scrutinized as much as a Christian's ? I would say no.

There is no consistency in how these things are covered because there is no consistency in the mass Canadian consciousness between how these things are scene.  The media, though, could spend a little time addressing "meta-coverage" and explain why they do these things.  Why not ?


Offline SirJohn

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Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2018, 10:44:27 am »
1) Continuing ?  Not sure about that.

The mainstream media might not longer be discussing it. Canadians are.

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2) I'm going to assume you missed this and that it was not a fib on your part but this was a huge story early on:

Reread what I said. I said his being a Sikh is discussed in terms of his sympathy or alleged sympathy for Sikh separatism. Your cite was all about that and in no way contradicted what I said. But where is any discussion of his actual religion and his apparently deeply religious views and how that might impact his behaviour as a prime minister?

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3) Separatism and multiculturalism are separate but related.  Do you expect Israel to be 100% multicultural ?  I don't.  But Canada can do that.

Not a good comparison. Sikhs don't have an independent state. They are part of India. Why is Singh not urging his fellow Sikhs to revel in the diversity of India and embrace the Indian multicultural state rather than go their own way?

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But... it's qualitative.  Could a Muslim Candidate for MP punctuate his speeches with Allah Akbar ?  Uh, no.  But would a Muslim candidate's support for pro-life positions be scrutinized as much as a Christian's ? I would say no.

No. Certainly not. How often have Muslim candidates been confronted by the media and directly asked their opinions on homosexuality? On blasphemy laws? It may have occurred but I've never seen it.

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There is no consistency in how these things are covered because there is no consistency in the mass Canadian consciousness between how these things are scene.

I disagree. This is entirely a media thing. The Canadian media is largely quite liberal and don't dare raise the same questions of 'ethnic' candidates they would routinely raise about religious Christians. It is, I think, the bigotry of low expectations, which we see so much of. The media do not hold ethnic candidates to the same standard.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline MH

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Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2018, 02:30:21 pm »
The mainstream media might not longer be discussing it. Canadians are.

What is the evidence that he is continuing to discuss Sikh separatism though ?

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Reread what I said. I said his being a Sikh is discussed in terms of his sympathy or alleged sympathy for Sikh separatism. Your cite was all about that and in no way contradicted what I said. But where is any discussion of his actual religion and his apparently deeply religious views and how that might impact his behaviour as a prime minister?

Well... that part they do NOT ask of Prime Ministers.  They did ask him about separatism though.  What else is there to be concerned about ?  I don't know.

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Not a good comparison. Sikhs don't have an independent state. They are part of India. Why is Singh not urging his fellow Sikhs to revel in the diversity of India and embrace the Indian multicultural state rather than go their own way?

It's like telling Quebec to be multicultural and allow English speakers to have more rights.  Or Saudi Arabia.  Or Israel.  There are politically acceptable examples of 'homelands' for certain peoples.  That is just the political reality.  Canada and the US don't need it, but Israel and some other places sometimes do.  That's what the Sikh homeland question is about.

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No. Certainly not. How often have Muslim candidates been confronted by the media and directly asked their opinions on homosexuality? On blasphemy laws? It may have occurred but I've never seen it.

No, but would a Muslim party leader be asked that ?  I think the answer is 'yes' based on Singh.

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I disagree. This is entirely a media thing. The Canadian media is largely quite liberal and don't dare raise the same questions of 'ethnic' candidates they would routinely raise about religious Christians. It is, I think, the bigotry of low expectations, which we see so much of. The media do not hold ethnic candidates to the same standard.
  Maybe, but the core point is to not expect consistent behaviour so much, from a group.

Offline MH

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Offline Mr. Perfect

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Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2021, 03:23:36 pm »
Maxime Bernier, nutbar, has been arrested :D

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/maxime-bernier-manitoba-taken-into-custody-1.6062801

The interesting part to me is that he was completely mainstream and within a point of winning the CPC nomination for leader.
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Offline MH

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Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2021, 04:59:04 pm »
There's a long list of people who fallen from grace.. and a lot of them are right wing.. Sarah Palin, Rudy Giuliani, Geraldo Rivera

Offline Mr. Perfect

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Re: Bernier Quits CPC to form new federal party
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2021, 06:23:14 pm »
There's a long list of people who fallen from grace.. and a lot of them are right wing.. Sarah Palin, Rudy Giuliani, Geraldo Rivera

Ummm…. A very American list….