Author Topic: Basic income program for Canada  (Read 582 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline waldo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3611
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2020, 12:22:29 am »
again... the Liberal introduced, 'Child Care Benefit (CCB)'... as close as it gets to UBI in the real world! A most effective pilot program

Canadian Centre for Economic Analysis: Economic Contribution of the Canada Child Benefit: A Basic Income Guarantee for Canadian Families with Children




hey dumb-taggin' member squiggy, p*i*s*s* off!
Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Offline Granny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1172
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2020, 10:33:59 am »
You're still not getting it.  I'm asking them for OTHER alternatives.

Worth a try.

Offline Granny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1172
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2020, 10:36:29 am »
again... the Liberal introduced, 'Child Care Benefit (CCB)'... as close as it gets to UBI in the real world! A most effective pilot program


N/A
Only for people with minor children.
Not universal, and not full basic income support.

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7513
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2020, 01:16:54 pm »
Worth a try.

I'd be interested to hear what could be achieved for similar money to basic income.

Today we have welfare, basically: "cut 'em a cheque".

Basic income is "cut 'em a big cheque"

I'm thinking about life coaching, deep investigation of peoples' situations to improve them, to help them out.  But only front line workers could opine on that with any degree of insight.
Disagree Disagree x 2 View List

Offline waldo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3611
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2020, 12:13:06 am »
N/A
Only for people with minor children.
Not universal, and not full basic income support.

you were bemoaning the lack of "good pilot programs"... and I gave you a 'good as it gets' example with the Liberal Party introduced Child Care Benefit (CCB).

there will never be a deployment of universal, let alone a representative pilot. What there can be, per CCB, are selective... targeted... policies impacting upon segments of the populace.

by the by, your conceptual zeal for UBI seems a tad lacking in the reality of how to actually pay for it - yes?
Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Offline Gorgeous Graham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4756
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2020, 12:44:40 am »
by the by, your conceptual zeal for UBI seems a tad lacking in the reality of how to actually pay for it - yes?

The best thing about the Canada Child Benefit is that the Liberal government who created it pays for it by running deficits that add to the debt that these same children will have to pay back one day...plus interest!

You know full well our governments don't need to pay for anything, stop pestering granny with such unimportant details!  The Trudeau/Butts Canadian Utopia (TBCU) has no room for unbelievers.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline waldo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3611
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2020, 01:13:18 am »
You know full well our governments don't need to pay for anything, stop pestering granny with such unimportant details! The Trudeau/Butts Canadian Utopia (TBCU) has no room for unbelievers

it's called costing... and when implemented typically includes related/complementary line-item budgetary inclusion. I appreciate you revel in your own Conservative Balanced Budget Utopia (CBBU), but all that does is give you a false non-real world premise to slag just about any implemented policy out there. And ya, for such a... utopian policy like UBI, dontchaWannaSeeSomeCosting... whether you accept it or not?

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7513
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2020, 07:03:35 am »
@the_squid what did I miss in my proposal?

To be clear, I am also in favour of budgeting what it takes to get results in people's lives.

Offline the_squid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2683
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2020, 06:51:23 pm »
@the_squid what did I miss in my proposal?

To be clear, I am also in favour of budgeting what it takes to get results in people's lives.

As great as your proposals sound, individual attention is just never going to work or be affordable.  One of the reasons the UBI works (in theory) is because it eliminates vast amounts of bureaucracy.  Your proposals seem to want to increase services for people.

Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Offline Gorgeous Graham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4756
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2020, 07:51:30 pm »
As great as your proposals sound, individual attention is just never going to work or be affordable.  One of the reasons the UBI works (in theory) is because it eliminates vast amounts of bureaucracy.  Your proposals seem to want to increase services for people.

You're not wrong.

MH's proposals seem to strike at more of the root of some of the problems of poverty, but would be harder to implement.  UBI keeps people out of poverty much easier, but it also creates dependency.  Both sound like very costly programs.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7513
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2020, 06:36:18 am »
As great as your proposals sound, individual attention is just never going to work or be affordable.  One of the reasons the UBI works (in theory) is because it eliminates vast amounts of bureaucracy.  Your proposals seem to want to increase services for people.

Yes, but unlike the basic income my program would aim to get them off assistance.

Offline Granny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1172
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2020, 08:50:06 am »
I'd be interested to hear what could be achieved for similar money to basic income.

Today we have welfare, basically: "cut 'em a cheque".

Basic income is "cut 'em a big cheque"

I'm thinking about life coaching, deep investigation of peoples' situations to improve them, to help them out.  But only front line workers could opine on that with any degree of insight.

Remember, basic income is a universal program, not just for those currently living in poverty. So think about how you would want to use it for yourself too. Are such programs useful to you? A good way for you to spend your basic income money?

I think most people would want to use it for long term financial planning, to get ahead.

The patriarchal model of custodial care would, as you are suggesting, control the money, 'put them in a program'. It prioritizes external control, and that's associated with increasing dependency and learned helplessness.

Basic income affords people the autonomy to determine and access programs and services that fulfill their personal needs, abilities, and ambitions, choose their own paths forward, and facilitate independent long term financial planning.
Isn't that what we'd all want to do with our basic income?

We're all human. Autonomy motivates and energizes us. Control and [edit] imposed 'solutions' drain us of both.
Proven facts.

 
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 03:26:51 pm by Granny »

Offline the_squid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2683
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2020, 09:59:42 am »
Yes, but unlike the basic income my program would aim to get them off assistance.

Spend billions to save millions....
Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7513
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2020, 11:56:24 am »
Spend billions to save millions....

No...

Offline the_squid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2683
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2020, 02:32:27 pm »
No...

Thatís what it sounds like.

Do you think a lot of people are collecting government assistance when they donít need to be?  How many?  How much is it costing us?

 Better to have an actual universal income and claw it back from people based on how much they make.  No more bureaucracies for all the different departments that hand out different monies to the same people. 
Agree Agree x 1 View List