Author Topic: Basic income program for Canada  (Read 1077 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7816
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #105 on: September 14, 2020, 02:55:42 pm »
Have we?

Well, we need to get it from an MMT expert but ... yes ... cut off the taps is the simplistic version.

Offline wilber

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5626
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #106 on: September 14, 2020, 04:55:55 pm »
Well, we need to get it from an MMT expert but ... yes ... cut off the taps is the simplistic version.

That becomes a problem when you have been borrowing to start and maintain social programs.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7816
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #107 on: September 14, 2020, 05:13:38 pm »
That becomes a problem when you have been borrowing to start and maintain social programs.

With MMT you don't borrow it.  See the 'Economics Culture' thread...

Offline wilber

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5626
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #108 on: September 14, 2020, 05:22:58 pm »
With MMT you don't borrow it.  See the 'Economics Culture' thread...

No, we just print it. I did watch it and I am not convinced.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7816
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #109 on: September 14, 2020, 05:50:19 pm »
No, we just print it. I did watch it and I am not convinced.

Hardly anyone IS.

Offline wilber

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5626
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #110 on: September 14, 2020, 06:06:19 pm »
Hardly anyone IS.

Mainly because it promises something for nothing.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Gorgeous Graham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4895
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #111 on: September 14, 2020, 07:54:41 pm »
I think that a UBI program...

 -should replace (not supplement) other transfers to individuals (welfare, EI, OAS, etc).
 -eliminate many tax credits (including the basic personal exemption and credits for dependents.)
 -not be "comfortable".  It should be a safety net, not an alternative to working.
 -could introduce a wealth tax too.

Our government already transfers vasts sums of money to individuals for a variety of reasons. Putting it all under the heading of a UBI would be a way to make it more equitable and transparent. 

 -k

WTF is a wealth tax?  How to you determine every single Canadian's net assets?  That would cost a ridiculous amount of money.  Imagine having to appraise every single person's house and land?  Car?  Crap inside their house?  Paintings on the wall?

You have income taxes, capital gain taxes. Start with those.  Inheritance taxes are also there to be stolen.  We have 500 gazillion dollars to pay off because of this COVID.  Then add UBI.  Then add whatever utopian socialist dreams Trudeau has up his sleeve.

Move to Canada, we'll hook you up to the Queen's nipple for a lifelong suckle and tax the eff out of anyone intelligent and competent left in this country.  Brought to you by the Little Prince who has never had to worry about paying a bill or interviewing for a job in his whole life.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline Gorgeous Graham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4895
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #112 on: September 14, 2020, 08:09:15 pm »
Now....the CERB: If you've been paying into EI, you're covered for 35 weeks under the program because you paid into it just like normal.  If you're not eligible, anything else should be an interest-free loan, to be paid off over a very reasonable period, say 20 or 30 years, or we claw it from your estate when you die.

If you take money from the gov, and you didn't pay into a program like EI, then YOU pay it back, again over a reasonable longterm period.  I'm not paying for you to sit on your ass.  F**k you.  This will get people off their arses and looking for jobs real quick.

The wage subsidy is a joke.  If your company is struggling, get a loan from banks with our ridiculously low interest rates, and have the gov carefully regulate this process.

But Canadians don't want this.  They're lazy children sucking from the Queen's nipple looking for someone else to pick up their bill.  Look at Trudeau's approval rating after CERB hit.  Sitting on your ass doing nothing while getting paid is very popular!
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019
Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Offline MH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7816
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #113 on: September 14, 2020, 08:36:21 pm »
Mainly because it promises something for nothing.

I'm not convinced by your argument either.  I think the whole framework for economics is so untethered to understandable concepts...

Offline wilber

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5626
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #114 on: September 14, 2020, 09:34:08 pm »
I'm not convinced by your argument either.  I think the whole framework for economics is so untethered to understandable concepts...

MMT is about something for nothing.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Gorgeous Graham

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4895
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #115 on: September 14, 2020, 10:54:23 pm »
MMT is about something for nothing.

Money grows on trees now, get up to speed dude.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019
Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Offline BC_cheque

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1068
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #116 on: September 14, 2020, 11:16:56 pm »
WTF is a wealth tax?  How to you determine every single Canadian's net assets?  That would cost a ridiculous amount of money.  Imagine having to appraise every single person's house and land?  Car?  Crap inside their house?  Paintings on the wall?

You have income taxes, capital gain taxes. Start with those.  Inheritance taxes are also there to be stolen.  We have 500 gazillion dollars to pay off because of this COVID.  Then add UBI.  Then add whatever utopian socialist dreams Trudeau has up his sleeve.

Move to Canada, we'll hook you up to the Queen's nipple for a lifelong suckle and tax the eff out of anyone intelligent and competent left in this country.  Brought to you by the Little Prince who has never had to worry about paying a bill or interviewing for a job in his whole life.


Wealth tax is based on comprehensive income.  It uses accrual based accounting as opposed to cash based.

If it's acceptable for IFRS, it's good enough for the Income Tax Act.

Enough said.

Offline BC_cheque

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1068
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #117 on: September 14, 2020, 11:28:48 pm »
Now....the CERB: If you've been paying into EI, you're covered for 35 weeks under the program because you paid into it just like normal.  If you're not eligible, anything else should be an interest-free loan, to be paid off over a very reasonable period, say 20 or 30 years, or we claw it from your estate when you die.

If you take money from the gov, and you didn't pay into a program like EI, then YOU pay it back, again over a reasonable longterm period.  I'm not paying for you to sit on your ass.  F**k you.  This will get people off their arses and looking for jobs real quick.

The wage subsidy is a joke.  If your company is struggling, get a loan from banks with our ridiculously low interest rates, and have the gov carefully regulate this process.

But Canadians don't want this.  They're lazy children sucking from the Queen's nipple looking for someone else to pick up their bill.  Look at Trudeau's approval rating after CERB hit.  Sitting on your ass doing nothing while getting paid is very popular!


CEWS should only be available to hospitality industries, and some retailers who really did get impacted.  All in all, labour is a small portion of their costs so it's just an incentive.  It was offered with so little restrictions and pretty much for to everyone, including companies where labour is the biggest cost, it became a joke.

CERB was a quick solution to a problem for which we didn't have infrastructure.  A lot of people abused it, but unlike CEWS, audits will be much easier to do.  Overall, I think it did more good than bad, unlike CEWS.

The government chose to flatten the curve and not overwhelm its health services by mandating shutdowns.  They have an obligation to make sure people don't starve. 

Offline JuniperRose

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #118 on: September 15, 2020, 07:28:06 am »
I keep reading MMT as Milf, so sometimes this thread seems very weird.
Funny Funny x 1 View List

Offline wilber

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5626
Re: Basic income program for Canada
« Reply #119 on: September 15, 2020, 09:03:07 am »
I keep reading MMT as Milf, so sometimes this thread seems very weird.

You sure it is the thread?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC