Author Topic: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts  (Read 6997 times)

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Offline JMT

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
« Reply #180 on: May 03, 2020, 02:45:47 pm »
See, Michael? This is the hysteria thing I was talking about.   People aren't going to die en masse this month as provinces being reopening activities.

The opening in most provinces tomorrow is so limited, that it will produce very little in the way of changes to the way we're going about our lives.
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Offline kimmy

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
« Reply #181 on: May 03, 2020, 02:49:58 pm »
It's limited, and people will be able to resume many activities that have been needlessly halted, and the sky won't fall.

Mass deaths won't ensue.

 -k
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Offline JMT

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
« Reply #182 on: May 03, 2020, 03:10:16 pm »
It's limited, and people will be able to resume many activities that have been needlessly halted, and the sky won't fall.

Mass deaths won't ensue.

 -k

You're right, because most restrictions are being left in place. I support a very limited opening. What I don't support is your flippant disregard for the lives of others.
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Offline Omni

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
« Reply #183 on: May 03, 2020, 03:33:10 pm »
It's limited, and people will be able to resume many activities that have been needlessly halted, and the sky won't fall.

Mass deaths won't ensue.

 -k

You just watch what happens in the states under trump's guidance. En masse is exactly how they will die if they follow his directions, which I suspect a lot of the dummies will.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
« Reply #184 on: May 03, 2020, 04:14:54 pm »
No, caution was effective. Preparation was effective.

Yes.  That's what all these precautions were about.  Hysteria never entered into it.

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Our public health officials were very correct in reacting with the utmost caution in the early days of this.   But now that we have more information, we can now see that some of the measures are excessive.   Continuing the ban on large gatherings and school and so on makes sense. Continuing to keep the fucken boat launch locked down doesn't make sense.

You heading to the boat launch?  The only ones around here that are closed are the ones in Provincial Parks, which were all closed.  No hysteria there.  I would presume the ones in Ontario that were closed were due to the party crowds that congregate around ski boats.  They wanted to avoid Covidiots getting together in busy areas. 

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One of the things that's striking is that you guys seem incapable of nuance.  You're apparently incapable of understanding that schools and concerts and festivals pose a completely different level of risk to parks and beaches and boat launches and similar. 

We've seen Omni running around screaming like Chicken Little about beaches in the US being reopened. Beaches here in BC were never actually closed, but the sky hasn't fallen. As more low-risk activities resume in BC and other parts of Canada in the very near future, the sky will continue to not fall.  And strangely I have the feeling that some of you will be disappointed when it doesn't.


 -k

Here's some nuance you missed Kimmy...   beaches in BC weren't closed because they weren't crowded.  Beaches in Florida had to be closed because they were packed with idiots who weren't following the rules.  You are ignoring a huge difference there.  Did Omni ever propose our beaches be closed? 

Here's some other nuance you missed Kimmy....  you weren't complaining that you weren't allowed to go to a boat ramp...  or a beach...   or out in the woods or to parks...  because you could do all of those things.  You complained about not being able to go to the bar.    ::)

You are ignoring all nuance just for the sake of complaining.  No one here has even argued that boat ramps should be closed!   But you are now fixated on that??  You don't want to go to the bar anymore? 

 
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A significant portion of these deaths have been inside nursing homes.   Preventing kimmy from going to the bar after work doesn't do anything to protect nursing home residents.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 04:17:25 pm by the_squid »
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Offline waldo

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
« Reply #185 on: May 04, 2020, 09:08:59 am »
WAPO has opened up its paywall on this most devastating account:

34 days of pandemic: Inside Trump’s desperate attempts to reopen America

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Trump "repeatedly embraced fantasy cure-alls" and "sought to obscure major problems by trying to recast them as triumphs."

His briefings became a forum to "shift blame, stoke feuds, spread misinformation and inspire false hope."

Offline kimmy

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
« Reply #186 on: May 05, 2020, 12:04:58 am »
You're right, because most restrictions are being left in place. I support a very limited opening. What I don't support is your flippant disregard for the lives of others.

What flippant regard for the lives of others?  Despite what a few chunks of crap have been saying about me, I never said that I don't care if old people die because I want to go to the bar. What I DID say was:

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A significant portion of these deaths have been inside nursing homes.   Preventing kimmy from going to the bar after work doesn't do anything to protect nursing home residents.

And I still don't think that kimmy going to the bar killed any old-people.

I believe we now have multiple inquiries going on into exactly what went wrong at nursing homes. And I believe that those inquiries are looking into things like training and qualifications of nursing home staff, policies and procedures put in place by nursing home operators, conditions in for-profit homes, and this sort of thing.  One thing that a lot of people have been looking at is the practice of care workers working at multiple different nursing homes in the same city, with the result of cross-pollinating the virus among all the nursing homes.   

We had community transmission of coronavirus everywhere in Canada, and yet this level of devastation was specific to nursing homes, and it happened in nursing homes all over the country. This wasn't just a product of community transmission, it was something specific to nursing homes.

 -k
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Offline kimmy

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
« Reply #187 on: May 05, 2020, 12:33:05 am »
Yes.  That's what all these precautions were about.  Hysteria never entered into it.

Sure. There's been lots of hysteria going on. We've seen Omni. We've seen waldo ranting about "azzhole joggers" who are going to kill everybody.

I just read this account of a woman who had to take her kids grocery shopping with her:
Recently, Rebekah Geldart, a single mother of two children in Guelph, Ont., had to take her children to the grocery store with her. Her children’s father was unavailable to help, her parents were under quarantine and her sister is immunocompromised – she had run out of options. “We needed groceries, and the wait times for delivery or pick up were over a week long,” Ms. Geldart says. She instructed her eight-year-old son and six-year-old daughter to keep their noses and mouths covered with their balaclavas, and keep their winter gloves on.

“Five separate people stopped me during this trip, only to inform me that my children should not be out,” she says. Some comments were gentler than others, but one woman stopped Ms. Geldart and asked her, “What kind of mother wants her children to die?” Both Ms. Geldart and her two children were shaken and upset by the exchanges. Her children’s behaviour was affected by the experience in the coming days and weeks.




How about this LPC riding association chief from Vancouver East:

Snipers? On streets? In Canada?

You heading to the boat launch?  The only ones around here that are closed are the ones in Provincial Parks, which were all closed.  No hysteria there.  I would presume the ones in Ontario that were closed were due to the party crowds that congregate around ski boats.  They wanted to avoid Covidiots getting together in busy areas. 

You can be certain that people who break social distancing rules in public are breaking social distancing rules in private.  At least if they're doing it in public they can be lectured, dispersed, and even fined.

Here's some nuance you missed Kimmy...   beaches in BC weren't closed because they weren't crowded.  Beaches in Florida had to be closed because they were packed with idiots who weren't following the rules.  You are ignoring a huge difference there.  Did Omni ever propose our beaches be closed? 

Here's some other nuance you missed Kimmy....  you weren't complaining that you weren't allowed to go to a boat ramp...  or a beach...   or out in the woods or to parks...  because you could do all of those things.  You complained about not being able to go to the bar.    ::)

You are ignoring all nuance just for the sake of complaining.  No one here has even argued that boat ramps should be closed!   But you are now fixated on that??  You don't want to go to the bar anymore?

Yes, I'm still very much looking forward to going to the bar.  I was talking about the boat launch because it's such a ludicrous example of stuff being closed for no sensible reason. 

I already talked about this earlier in the thread:
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To me the most exasperating thing about the shutdowns are the one-size-fits-all nature of the shutdown.

It seems ridiculous to me that a venue that seats 20 people is treated the same as a venue that seats 2000 people or 20,000 people.  It seems ridiculous to me that a pottery class is treated the same as a gym or a yoga class.  I don't think a sit-down restaurant poses the same risks as a shopping mall food court. I don't think a neighborhood pub poses the same risks as a packed nightclub with a dance floor full of sweaty people.

(Personal note: I think it's ridiculous that Kim City is treating the kayak club the same as city swimming pools and city fitness centers. Are they afraid the ducks and fish will catch COVID? I don't get it.)

I'm also skeptical that the same measures are necessary in Saskatchewan as in Ontario.  And I'm skeptical that the same measures are necessary in Kenora Ontario as in downtown Toronto.

My kayak being locked up was probably the single stupidest thing I can think of. The kayak club is apparently under the same umbrella of regulation as city swimming pools and gyms. Something like that, I guess. They're finally open.

But since you're so focused on it: yes, I'm still looking forward to the bar. The actual bar countertop might not be open for a long time, but the tables and patios should be able to open fairly soon.  And I will be there.


 -k
« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 01:08:11 am by kimmy »
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Offline waldo

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
« Reply #188 on: May 05, 2020, 12:44:07 am »
And I still don't think that kimmy going to the bar killed any old-people.

you are consistently ignorant of the possibility of pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic carriers... in your favoured bar haunts... with a potential to infect oh, say... care-givers, delivery persons, etc.. - or do you screen those types out of your kind of bars?  ;D

Offline kimmy

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
« Reply #189 on: May 05, 2020, 12:57:49 am »
quit your quibbling! If you're going to take such quibbling exception,

It reads like you're having a stroke here.

the waldo suggests you provide explicit references to delineate when you're talking of B.C. (as is most of your emphasis) and when you're speaking more broadly - you're welcome!

The context of my question was in response to Coonlight's statement that "We're all stuck inside until everyone gets vaccinated."  I don't know or care how you arrived at the conclusion that this pertained just to BC.  Our Prime Minister has said over and over that there's no return to normal without a vaccine, it's clearly a national issue.


as for your continued emphasis on nothing being done until a vaccine is ready, who said so? - name the names, other than yourself. You keep referring to a worst-case "2022 or later" timing; again, who said so? - name the names, other than yourself. Such an alarmist you are!

2022 isn't the worst case. Never is the worst case. MERS appeared in 2012 and they still don't have a vaccine. It took 5 years to create an Ebola vaccine.  12 to 18 months is highly optimistic:
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Overall, if all pieces fell into place, Hatchett guesses it would be 12 to 18 months before an initial product could be deemed safe and effective. That timeline represents “a vast acceleration compared with the history of vaccine development,” he told me. But it’s also unprecedentedly ambitious. “Even to propose such a timeline at this point must be regarded as hugely aspirational,” he added.

Even if that idyllic year-long projection were realized, the novel product would still require manufacturing and distribution. “An important consideration is whether the underlying approach can then be scaled to produce millions or even billions of doses in coming years,” Hatchett said. Especially in an ongoing emergency, if borders closed and supply chains broke, distribution and production could prove difficult purely as a matter of logistics.

Fauci’s initial optimism seemed to wane, too. Last week he said that the process of vaccine development was proving “very difficult and very frustrating.” For all the advances in basic science, the process cannot proceed to an actual vaccine without extensive clinical testing, which requires manufacturing many vaccines and meticulously monitoring outcomes in people. The process could ultimately cost hundreds of millions of dollars—money that the NIH, start-ups, and universities don’t have. Nor do they have the production facilities and technology to mass-manufacture and distribute a vaccine.

12 to 18 months, if everything goes well.  Who knows how long if things don't go well. 


by the by, those "typical" range references speak to a year-to-18 months away - that's April 2021-to-October 2021. There's a world-wide focus on developing a vaccine now... the beginnings of an assortment of human trials have commenced. Of course, it will not be easy... and much remains unknown about the virus, notwithstanding what efficacy and effectiveness will be realized. FWIW: Status Report on an assortment of in-development vaccines

The main point, which you missed because you were hung up on what the size limit was, is that we can't ban gatherings of people indefinitely.  Our society can't function for long if even a full bus or classroom is too big of a risk.  A vaccine would be great, but it can't be the lynch-pin upon which everything turns.

 -k
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Offline kimmy

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
« Reply #190 on: May 05, 2020, 01:03:12 am »
you are consistently ignorant of the possibility of pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic carriers... in your favoured bar haunts... with a potential to infect oh, say... care-givers, delivery persons, etc.. - or do you screen those types out of your kind of bars?  ;D

Asymptomatic carriers are already built into the data we're seeing. They're out there doing their thing already.   So are social distancing cheaters, lapses in hygene, and all sorts of other non-ideal situations. 

 -k
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Offline waldo

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
« Reply #191 on: May 05, 2020, 01:04:17 am »
We've seen waldo ranting about "azzhole joggers" who are going to kill everybody.

such hyperbole on your part! Sure, I can understand why YOU would have no qualms over a number of, a grouping of, azzhole runners passing on your elbow/shoulder while breathing heavily/forcefully and directly exhausting droplets in your immediate area - no biggee, hey!

Offline waldo

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
« Reply #192 on: May 05, 2020, 01:07:51 am »
Asymptomatic carriers are already built into the data we're seeing. They're out there doing their thing already.   So are social distancing cheaters, lapses in hygene, and all sorts of other non-ideal situations.

the waldo did not know that YOUR built-in data included asymptomatic/pre-symptomatic carriers... and infection transfer in open bars. If bars are open, what are you forever whining about?

the waldo relishes yet another member kimmy OWN-GOAL!
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Offline kimmy

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
« Reply #193 on: May 05, 2020, 01:18:00 am »
the waldo did not know that YOUR built-in data included asymptomatic/pre-symptomatic carriers... and infection transfer in open bars. If bars are open, what are you forever whining about?

the waldo relishes yet another member kimmy OWN-GOAL!

Obviously bars aren't open. What a moronic comment. 

What we do know is that the asymptomatic carriers are out amongst us, and yet active cases and hospitalization are falling.  Asymptomatic carriers haven't flooded hospitals with new cases while shopping at grocery stores or liquor stores or hardware stores, and there's no reason to suspect that other kinds of "non-essential" stores pose any greater risk.  We already know that social distancing has been very effective while some sorts of businesses remain open, so expand it to more places.

Bars (the counter top portion) obviously don't permit social distancing, but restaurants and patios with adequate space between patrons would permit social distancing.

 -k
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Offline waldo

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! It’s just killing old farts
« Reply #194 on: May 05, 2020, 01:29:27 am »
Obviously bars aren't open. What a moronic comment.

the moronic comment... and OWN GOAL was yours! You puffed-up to state asymptomatic carriers were already factored... "baked into the existing data". Which, of course, can't be the case since your favoured bar haunts aren't open! So, quite obviously, you can't presume upon bar infection transfer within current data - ya think!  ;D

What we do know is that the asymptomatic carriers are out amongst us, and yet active cases and hospitalization are falling.  Asymptomatic carriers haven't flooded hospitals with new cases while shopping at grocery stores or liquor stores or hardware stores, and there's no reason to suspect that other kinds of "non-essential" stores pose any greater risk.  We already know that social distancing has been very effective while some sorts of businesses remain open, so expand it to more places.

oh how delicious! Good on ya for recognizing the value/need for social distancing... in helping to contribute to, wait for it, wait for it... reduced infection rates!