Author Topic: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts  (Read 4319 times)

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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2020, 07:51:44 pm »
I mostly agree with you...  PC culture up here can cost lives, and may have done so, with this pandemic.  Except your assertions about the ďextreme leftĒ Democrats is off-base.  Their ďextreme leftĒ is actually pretty moderate compared to up here.

That's true, at least among their politicians.  Private citizens I think have similar extremes, though they seem to have more rightwing nutters down there, but we have our share.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019
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Offline kimmy

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2020, 10:57:14 pm »
I'm with squiggy on this one.

Kimmy you've gone Republican.  We're all stuck inside until everyone gets vaccinated.  Any talk of easing restrictions makes no sense.  It's just going to flare up again.

There isn't going to be a vaccine for a year to 18 months, at the earliest.   Do you really think it's realistic to just maintain a ban on gatherings of over 10 people until 2022? Dr Fauci says 18 months hopefully.  What if instead of 2022, it's 2023 or 2024... still want to keep everything locked down? Still want to wait for the vaccine?

I always hear people ask something like "how would you feel if you have to tell your grandfather that he might get sick and die from this?"   I have yet to hear anybody ask anything like "how would you feel if you have to be the one who has to tell your granddaughter that she won't be able to go back to college until 2022?" 

I know that somebody is going to say "well the virus attacks young people too you know!"  but the death rate is minuscule for young people-- a fraction of a percent-- and most young people don't even need hospitalization. (my own speculation: the data for young people is probably inflated because only the very sickest will even be tested, most will feel like they had a bad cold and never know.) It's only when you get into the seniors age group that the  becomes significant.  For young people, the rate is negligible-- literally one in a million hospitalization rate for people under 18 according to the US CDC. Under 60, the rate is still very small. Only once you get into the pensioners and retirees do you find significant rates of hospitalization. I know that everybody is pushing very hard to point out that sometimes young people become very sick and even die from this. But the numbers say that by far the vast majority of hospitalizations and deaths from this will be boomers and their parents.

So while everybody is saying "we're all in this together!" the reality is that we are asking young people to put their lives on hold for the benefit of our society's older (and wealthier) members. 

Young people will never be repaid-- or even acknowledged-- for the sacrifices they are making to keep old-people safe during this disaster. 

Our government is taking steps to make sure that land-owners and stock-holders and big businesses aren't annihilated by the economic fallout from this pandemic. For everybody else it's going to be hit and miss. For my acquaintance that opened Kim City's first LGBT bar about a month before the lockdown, it's probably going to be a "miss". It was a nice 4 weeks for him, but it's probably never going to open again.  For my special girl, who depends on commissions (from her day job) and tips (from her night job) to make ends meet, it's probably going to be a "miss". We don't talk about money issues, but I don't need to ask to know that she is going to be completely **** over in terms of how much the government provides her versus how much she would earn normally. I don't need to ask to know that she is going to be depending on her parents for financial assistance for the duration of this shitstorm, and I don't need to ask to know how badly that hurts her.

Our government has taken great action to prevent the collapse of real estate values and the stock market and of big businesses and pension plans and hedge funds and all of those other things. Which I commend them for. But people will fall through the cracks, and disproportionately those will be young people. Industries will be crushed for years to come, and disproportionately those are industries that employ young people-- retail, restaurants, hospitality, tourism.  While some young-people will cash in working as Skip The Dishes drivers at an equivalent pay rate of about $3 per hour, most are going to be left broken by an economy worse than we have seen since the 1930s.  While the boomers and their stock portfolios and their real estate assets are protected by the government, young people are going to be left at the curb.

The boomers will go back to their stock portfolios and pensions, and go back to golfing with their buddies. Young people will have nothing except the knowledge that they did something good for their society.  Once upon a time I had a job in customer service, where I was told that good customer services is "like wetting yourself wearing dark pants: you get a warm feeling but nobody else notices."  That is going to be the reward young people get for their sacrifices they make during this crisis.

Everybody is saying "we're all in this together!" the reality is that we are asking young people to put their lives on hold for the benefit of our society's older (and wealthier) members. 

And what is especially galling to me is that most of the boomers and their parents are too ignorant and self-centered to know or care what others are giving up to preserve their safety.  They'll be bitching that their weekly bridge games have been put on hold, and that the golf club is limiting how many groups can be out on the course at one time, and that the "golden years" hours at the grocery store hours are so inconvenient.   And they will spend not a moment thinking about the young people who have put their education on hold and sacrificed their livelihoods for the sake of the greater good.

So forgive me for not feeling super charitable toward the "old farts" right now.


 -k
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 11:14:33 pm by kimmy »
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2020, 11:14:46 pm »
There isn't going to be a vaccine for a year to 18 months, at the earliest.   Do you really think it's realistic to just maintain a ban on gatherings of over 10 people until 2022? Dr Fauci says 18 months hopefully.  What if instead of 2022, it's 2023 or 2024... still want to keep everything locked down? Still want to wait for the vaccine?

I always hear people ask something like "how would you feel if you have to tell your grandfather that he might get sick and die from this?"   I have yet to hear anybody ask anything like "how would you feel if you have to be the one who has to tell your granddaughter that she won't be able to go back to college until 2022?" 
...
So while everybody is saying "we're all in this together!" the reality is that we are asking young people to put their lives on hold for the benefit of our society's older (and wealthier) members. 

Young people will never be repaid-- or even acknowledged-- for the sacrifices they are making to keep old-people safe during this disaster.

Nobody wants businesses to close or lives on hold.  The reality is that we have to choose between seniors and those with underlying conditions dying VS college kids having their schooling delayed and some businesses closing etc.  That choice is really easy for me.  Somebody's small business isn't worth thousands of lives.  People getting 2 or 5 or 10 more years being alive is kind of a big deal.  You want me to choose between the lives of my parents and your friend's bar business?  Are you mad?

This isn't just young people's lives on hold, this is everyone.  Yours and mine and everyone.  Some will lose in this more than others, thems the breaks, they will live to play another day.  The ones who will lose most will lose their lives and/or loved ones.  Everyone should just be grateful they aren't dead after this.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline kimmy

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2020, 11:20:20 pm »
The government is doing everything possible to make sure that the boomers' overpriced real estate assets remain overpriced, and everything possible to make sure that the boomers' overpriced stock assets remain overpriced, and nothing to compensate young people for the years of lost earnings they're going to suffer from this catastrophe. So tell me how the **** this is fair.

 -k
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2020, 11:31:04 pm »
The government is doing everything possible to make sure that the boomers' overpriced real estate assets remain overpriced, and everything possible to make sure that the boomers' overpriced stock assets remain overpriced, and nothing to compensate young people for the years of lost earnings they're going to suffer from this catastrophe. So tell me how the **** this is fair.

 -k

They can apply for the CERB, EI, or business wage subsidy etc like everyone else.  Their wages may not be entirely paid back, but real estate prices are dropping as are stocks.  This isn't age warfare, most people are losing here.

For the CERB you get up to $2000 back a month.  What if a 55 year old is normally making $4000 a month and a millennial is making $2500.  Is that "fair"?

Your priorities are all effed up.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019
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Offline kimmy

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2020, 11:31:50 pm »
Everyone should just be grateful they aren't dead after this.

The fact of the matter is that nobody under 65 has any reason to be worried about being dead from this.

I already mentioned that my 55 year old coworker who tested positive for COVID-19 only even got tested because he was in hospital because of a heart attack, right? He had a heart attack, and heart surgery, and recovered, WHILE HE HAD COVID-19.  I already mentioned that I think I already had this virus that the guy in the next cubicle had. The guy I talked to every day and had coffee with every day. I thought it was a bad cold. Me, at 36 years old, with exertional asthma and allergic athsma and a congenital defect that caused my lungs to have narrow air pathways. I'll never know for sure that I got COVID-19 from the guy who I saw and talked to every single day, because me-- with the weakest lungs on the planet-- wasn't even sick enough to get tested to know for sure.

People have gotten a distorted notion of how dangerous this virus actually is.

 -k
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Offline kimmy

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2020, 11:37:04 pm »
I ask again: how long are people willing to wait for a vaccine? 2022? 2023? 2024?

 -k
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Offline wilber

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2020, 11:38:11 pm »
I don't know that a vaccine is the only solution, there will also be more effective treatments for the disease itself as they learn more about it. There is no vaccine for HIV but it went from a death sentence to a manageable disease.
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Offline Omni

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2020, 11:38:27 pm »
The fact of the matter is that nobody under 65 has any reason to be worried about being dead from this.

I already mentioned that my 55 year old coworker who tested positive for COVID-19 only even got tested because he was in hospital because of a heart attack, right? He had a heart attack, and heart surgery, and recovered, WHILE HE HAD COVID-19.  I already mentioned that I think I already had this virus that the guy in the next cubicle had. The guy I talked to every day and had coffee with every day. I thought it was a bad cold. Me, at 36 years old, with exertional asthma and allergic athsma and a congenital defect that caused my lungs to have narrow air pathways. I'll never know for sure that I got COVID-19 from the guy who I saw and talked to every single day, because me-- with the weakest lungs on the planet-- wasn't even sick enough to get tested to know for sure.

People have gotten a distorted notion of how dangerous this virus actually is.

 -k

Sounds like you're promoting trump's idiocy with that comment!
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Offline kimmy

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2020, 11:40:17 pm »
I don't know that a vaccine is the only solution, there will also be more effective treatments for the disease itself as they learn more about it. There is no vaccine for HIV but it went from a death sentence to a manageable disease.

That's an extremely good point. I don't think Trudeau was correct in saying that "we can't go back to normal until there is a vaccine".

How did your grand-daughter feel about losing a semester of university?  How do you think she will feel if she can't go back to school until 2022?

 -k
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Offline kimmy

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2020, 11:44:48 pm »
Sounds like you're promoting trump's idiocy with that comment!

The numbers say that the hospitalization rate for people under 18 for COVID-19 is literally 1 in 1,000,000.

I would really like to see a statistical breakdown of Canadian statistics for what COVID-19 looks like when statistics for long-term care facilities for senior citizens are broken out from statistics for the general population at large.

 -k
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Offline wilber

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2020, 11:48:09 pm »
According to the CDC, for the week ending April 11, 22% of Covid 19 related deaths were people under 65. Granted, most of them were between 55 and 64 but 10% were still under 54.
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Offline kimmy

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2020, 11:55:37 pm »
According to the CDC, for the week ending April 11, 22% of Covid 19 related deaths were people under 65. Granted, most of them were between 55 and 64 but 10% were still under 54.

And how many was that, exactly?

 -k
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Offline wilber

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Re: BACK TO WORK!! Itís just killing old farts
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2020, 11:58:55 pm »
That's an extremely good point. I don't think Trudeau was correct in saying that "we can't go back to normal until there is a vaccine".

How did your grand-daughter feel about losing a semester of university?  How do you think she will feel if she can't go back to school until 2022?

 -k

She hasn't lost a semester, she is doing finals now online. Her older brother is doing co-op with an engineering firm in kim city before starting his last year of school in September. They are concerned of course but there isn't much they can do about it.
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Offline wilber

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"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC