Author Topic: An activist PM and government  (Read 3336 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SirJohn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5801
Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2018, 09:46:10 pm »
Of course it's relevant.

It's relevant to the discussion of how you fix the social problems so that natives have a purpose in life and don't break the law. It's not relevant to what you do about them breaking the law. The Justice department is not going to fix this.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2018, 09:47:24 pm »
It's not an Americanism its a Britishism that dates back to the Magna Carta.

The Magna Carta was about barons having their land disputes with the King influenced by other barons. Criminal trials were the domain of the church (trial by fire and water), which would dunk the accused into a lake or other horrific test and God would decide; if they lived they were set free.

guest7

  • Guest
Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2018, 09:47:51 pm »
That is an Americanism, but you also failed to grasp what I pointed out above, it also works against Native Canadians when they are the accused and the crown makes the peremptory challenges.

But if one is looking for an impartial jury, why does one want Native Canadians on it?   If the jury had been all native instead of all white, they could have been relied upon to show no bias?  If not, and they were as likely as a white jury to be biased, what's the point? 

There should be an automatic switch to a judge only trial when a potential for a biased jury exists.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5630
Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2018, 09:49:05 pm »
How about this.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015/05/21/ontario-not-required-to-fix-native-reluctance-for-jury-duty-supreme-court.html

You give me a cite from a different province on a different case....    Come on....  try a little harder.

Provide a cite that says natives didn’t show for jury duty for that case.    We already know there were several natives in the pool who were all dismissed.
Winner Winner x 1 Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2018, 09:52:06 pm »
But if one is looking for an impartial jury, why does one want Native Canadians on it?   If the jury had been all native instead of all white, they could have been relied upon to show no bias?  If not, and they were as likely as a white jury to be biased, what's the point?

The why have any peremptory challenges, as I have been saying. Your logic works both ways, if you are implying that native Canadians are biased then non-native Canadians are also biased. The problem is that with only a small percentage of the population, native Canadians are the victims of systemic bias as they have been claiming.

Re. Trudeau's comments, read them they make complete sense outside of this specific trial.

Offline Omni

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8563
Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2018, 09:55:17 pm »
But if one is looking for an impartial jury, why does one want Native Canadians on it?   If the jury had been all native instead of all white, they could have been relied upon to show no bias?  If not, and they were as likely as a white jury to be biased, what's the point? 

There should be an automatic switch to a judge only trial when a potential for a biased jury exists.

You should re read the opening part of your post. What a silly question.

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2018, 09:55:26 pm »
I think the thread on jury selection and judge only trial is sufficiently removed from activist PM and government that it merits its own topic.
Agree Agree x 1 View List

guest7

  • Guest
Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2018, 09:56:33 pm »
The why have any peremptory challenges, as I have been saying. Your logic works both ways, if you are implying that native Canadians are biased then non-native Canadians are also biased. The problem is that with only a small percentage of the population, native Canadians are the victims of systemic bias as they have been claiming.

Re. Trudeau's comments, read them they make complete sense outside of this specific trial.

I'm saying the presumption of bias is implied if you look to put certain people on a jury.  It's certainly implied by the efforts to exclude natives, and it's also implied by any objection to that.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5630
Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2018, 09:57:26 pm »
Quote
Re. Trudeau's comments, read them they make complete sense outside of this specific trial.

But they weren’t outside this trial.   They were about this trial, and that was completely idiotic for a PM and the Justice Minister to do.   Also, meeting with the Boushies is even worse.   Are they planning how to “get justice” for him together?   How to get the verdict they all wished they got in the first place?
Dumb Dumb x 1 View List

Offline Omni

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8563
Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2018, 10:05:25 pm »
I'm saying the presumption of bias is implied if you look to put certain people on a jury.  It's certainly implied by the efforts to exclude natives, and it's also implied by any objection to that.

Wow, talk about a dog chasing it's tail. Of course lawyers look to put certain people on a jury which is what peremptories are for.

Offline cybercoma

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2956
Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2018, 10:06:22 pm »
No, because the number of objections is limited. Eventually both sides would exhaust their allotments and they would get whoever is in the pool. Before we go rushing to change jury selection based on one case it worth remembering that SCC has put a 30 month limit on trials an introducing a more complex jury selection process like they have in the US would only increase the time and cost of trials (and by implication increase the number of accused let go because the process took too long).
Yes. Let’s not rush to make it illegal to reject jurors based on race. /s

Offline cybercoma

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2956
Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2018, 10:09:16 pm »
I'm a law and order conservative. I have little sympathy for criminals of whatever race or ethnicity. Bouchi and his drunken pals went around robbing farmers and he got shot. I would feel not one iota more sympathy if they were all drunken blonde Swedes.
You don’t have sympathy for criminals....except white murderers, which evidently according to your post here, deserve more sympathy than native burglars.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 10:15:03 pm by JMT »

guest7

  • Guest
Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2018, 10:09:27 pm »
Wow, talk about a dog chasing it's tail. Of course lawyers look to put certain people on a jury which is what peremptories are for.

So do you agree or disagree?

Offline ?Impact

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2941
Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2018, 10:11:13 pm »
I'm saying the presumption of bias is implied if you look to put certain people on a jury.  It's certainly implied by the efforts to exclude natives, and it's also implied by any objection to that.

Hence the need to discuss, outside of this specific trial, the inherent systemic biases. That is what native Canadians, the Prime Minister, and I are talking about.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5630
Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2018, 10:13:41 pm »
Hence the need to discuss, outside of this specific trial, the inherent systemic biases. That is what native Canadians, the Prime Minister, and I are talking about.

That’s not what the PM is doing at all.
Dumb Dumb x 1 View List