Author Topic: An activist PM and government  (Read 3318 times)

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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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An activist PM and government
« on: February 12, 2018, 07:35:01 pm »
I’ve come to the conclusion that having an activist PM is a seriously negative outcome from the last election.  The PM’s picks for Ministers also seems to have led to activists in charge of ministries.

It has been fairly minor (“I’m a feminist”, indigenous reconciliation, “Person-kind”) up to this point.   It has taken a much more serious turn recently with tweets, statements and meetings that seem to undermine the justice system and, worse, an attempt to undermine a jury’s verdict in a murder case.

The tweets and statements by the PM and Justice Minister were bad enough....   it characterizes the jury as racist, the defendant as racist and a wrong decision by the court (jury).  It reminds me of what Trump does.   It is no different, in my opinion.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/boushie-verdict-ottawa-parliament-meeting-1.4530880

An activist, by definition, has a biased position that is not necessarily swayed by the facts and is often positional.  We shouldn’t have an activist government when it comes to matters of criminal justice when the government is supposed to be arms length from the entire process to maintain the impartiality of the justice system from politics.

Here is how a Justice Minister should act:  https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/stefanson-offers-sympathy-no-comment-on-boushie-verdict-473829613.html

And how leadership from an indigenous MP should look:
https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/mp-sorry-for-the-stanley-family-473760143.html


http://calgaryherald.com/news/politics/0212-na-stanley/wcm/bca6edc9-5f0e-4854-a625-deb8f2445e4a
Quote
Activists, First Nations leaders and some lawyers are demanding change after an all-white jury Friday acquitted a white farmer who shot and killed a young Indigenous man in rural Saskatchewan.

In press conferences, online and at rallies across the country, they pressed the message that Canada’s justice system is broken and must be fixed.

However, some lawyers are worried that politicians now weighing in on the case are going too far and may even be putting the independence of the country’s judiciary at risk with their comments.

“Saying anything that amounts to commenting on the correctness of the verdict, to improve your public image or ensure an appropriate approval rating, should be criticized in Canada,” said Michael Lacy, a partner in the criminal law group Brauti Thorning Zibarras LLP in Toronto.

On Saturday, federal Justice Minister Jody Wilson-Raybould said in a tweet that Canada “can and must do better,” after a jury found Gerald Stanley not guilty of second-degree murder in the shooting death of Colten Boushie.


Prime Minister Justin Trudeau also weighed in at a news conference in California, saying Canada has “come to this point as a country far too many times.”

Edmonton-based criminal lawyer Tom Engel said when politicians, especially the justice minister, appear to criticize verdicts, the public may believe that future decisions by the courts are influenced by the remarks.

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Offline kimmy

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Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2018, 07:40:28 pm »
I'm not convinced that he's an activist at all.  I think he pretends like he's an activist and a change agent and so on, but I think the reality is that he's a slick glossy social-media-friendly facade for the status quo. Much like Barack Obama, the talk has vastly exceeded the amount of actual change or activism. Like Obama, Trudeau is good at convincing people that the same-old same-old is new and different.

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Offline cybercoma

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Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2018, 07:55:02 pm »
When you call indigenous reconciliation “activism,” you completely ignore the findings of the royal commission and more broadly the purpose of royal commissions.
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Offline JMT

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Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2018, 07:59:20 pm »
I think this is something I would have said not all that long ago.  I think that it's a very white thing to say.  The jury was racist, even if they weren't discriminatory.  The entire system is racist, even if it doesn't mean to be.  Having a partner that has brown skin has shown me the error in my past beliefs.

Offline kimmy

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Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2018, 08:04:01 pm »
I think there's a big difference between supporting reconciliation vs supporting the undermining of our judicial system to give natives or women or other disadvantaged groups the verdicts they want.

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Offline JMT

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Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2018, 08:11:05 pm »
I think there's a big difference between supporting reconciliation vs supporting the undermining of our judicial system to give natives or women or other disadvantaged groups the verdicts they want.

 -k

I'm not really sure it's about the verdict that anyone wants.  Obviously, there is a lack of trust from the non majority community.  That right there undermines justice if anything does.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2018, 08:12:48 pm »
I'm not convinced that he's an activist at all.  I think he pretends like he's an activist and a change agent and so on, but I think the reality is that he's a slick glossy social-media-friendly facade for the status quo. Much like Barack Obama, the talk has vastly exceeded the amount of actual change or activism. Like Obama, Trudeau is good at convincing people that the same-old same-old is new and different.

I dunno, I think his efforts to help aboriginals is pretty damn empty since he's done basically nothing but lip service.  But he seems a genuine activist for things like feminism and multiculturalism, even though what he does seems pretty dumb.

Anyways, I think the guy is quite uninformed and naive, and has probably the weakest intellect of any PM of modern times I can think of.

He was wrong to comment on the Boushie verdict.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline cybercoma

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Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2018, 08:13:37 pm »
I think there's a big difference between supporting reconciliation vs supporting the undermining of our judicial system to give natives or women or other disadvantaged groups the verdicts they want.

 -k
Fair treatment under the law? That’s too much to ask? They’re disadvantaged by the perception of their indigenous being from the time they interact with a cop on the street right brought sentencing. When controlling for like-characteristics (age, education, accusation, etc), they face harsher treatment. It is necessary that we remedy that kind of injustice that stems from prejudiced expectations of indigenous character.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2018, 08:18:07 pm »
When you call indigenous reconciliation “activism,” you completely ignore the findings of the royal commission and more broadly the purpose of royal commissions.

But Trudeau does virtually nothing to help indigenous peoples, besides things that cost virtually nothing.  He'll say these verdict was BS but he'll do nothing to change the system.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline cybercoma

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Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2018, 08:20:16 pm »
I’m not supporting Trudeau, but the recommendations are practical and they will take time to implement. Some things have been done already, others will take time before they can be done, and others still will be an ongoing process.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2018, 08:20:31 pm »
I think this is something I would have said not all that long ago.  I think that it's a very white thing to say.  The jury was racist, even if they weren't discriminatory.

At 1st glance the verdict seems like BS, but we weren't a jury member, we didn't see all the evidence.  To say the jury was racist is a pretty serious accusation that needs evidence too.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley
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Offline JMT

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Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2018, 08:20:48 pm »
But Trudeau does virtually nothing to help indigenous peoples, besides things that cost virtually nothing.  He'll say these verdict was BS but he'll do nothing to change the system.

He's spent a lot of money on clean water.  That's certainly a start.

Offline JMT

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Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2018, 08:21:35 pm »
At 1st glance the verdict seems like BS, but we weren't a jury member, we didn't see all the evidence.  To say the jury was racist is a pretty serious accusation that needs evidence too.

The jury probably didn't (intentionally anyway) use race in their determination.  The reality is, the deck is stacked against brown people from before the time that they are born.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2018, 08:24:32 pm »
“Fun” fact...any time an indigenous person was up for jury duty, the defence objected to them. Legally, lawyers can reject jurors for any reason whatsoever, including the way they look. He US isn’t even as backwards as Canada in this regard. Lawyers there are not allowed to reject jurors based on race. So yeah, there’s definitely systemic racism at play.

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Re: An activist PM and government
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2018, 08:33:14 pm »
I think this is something I would have said not all that long ago.  I think that it's a very white thing to say.  The jury was racist, even if they weren't discriminatory.  The entire system is racist, even if it doesn't mean to be.  Having a partner that has brown skin has shown me the error in my past beliefs.

Yup.  Racism is invisible to people who don't experience it directly.