Author Topic: Alexandre Bissonnette Not Likely to be Charged with Terrorism  (Read 154 times)

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guest4

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I forget where I read it, so can't provide a link, but it seems he had a long gun that he started with, but it jammed so he went and got a handgun and used that.  Both weapons were found in his car. 

Coming in, shooting, leaving, coming back and using a different weapon might be why some people thought there were two shooters. 

Offline cybercoma

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when should a lawyer go to their client "your guilty, and it's time to face the music".
Honestly, never.

Why would I say that? Because the lawyer is not the judge nor jury.

Offline ?Impact

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Most of the media has reported that a pistol and 2 [assault] rifles were recovered from his vehicle. There are some out there claiming that he owned a CZ-858

Offline JMT

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And that's interesting, since the CZ-858 is about to become a restricted weapon.

guest4

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when should a lawyer go to their client "your guilty, and it's time to face the music".
Honestly, never.

Why would I say that? Because the lawyer is not the judge nor jury.

But if you don't have enough money or are a pro-bono client, they'll encourage you to plead guilty regardless of whether you are or not. 

Offline cybercoma

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But if you don't have enough money or are a pro-bono client, they'll encourage you to plead guilty regardless of whether you are or not. 
Unfortunately true and they shouldn't.

This is one of the key reasons I'm against mandatory minimum sentencing. It takes judgment away from the courts, namely the judges and juries, and it puts it into the hands of the prosecutors. They get people to plead guilty to lesser charges to avoid mandatory sentencing. Research has shown that a lot of times innocent people get put away from these. I have no idea why someone would plead guilty to something they didn't do, but when they think that the odds are stacked against them and believe they're getting off easy, they'll probably do anything.

Offline Blueblood

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when should a lawyer go to their client "your guilty, and it's time to face the music".
Honestly, never.

Why would I say that? Because the lawyer is not the judge nor jury.

They are also supposed to not mislead the court. 

One would think part of providing legal advice would be to tell their clients that it's over and a guilty plea would spare the court an expense of a trial which comes with plea bargaining.

Offline the_squid

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 A problem with this will be the lawyers drawing this mess out and soaking the taxpayers and courts time.

Would you prefer Saudi style where the trial takes a day and then they slice their head off?

to misuse a quote:          Our system of justice is terrible, except when you compare it against all the alternatives...

Offline Blueblood

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 A problem with this will be the lawyers drawing this mess out and soaking the taxpayers and courts time.

Would you prefer Saudi style where the trial takes a day and then they slice their head off?

to misuse a quote:          Our system of justice is terrible, except when you compare it against all the alternatives...

No, my issue is with the lawyers not seeing the writing on the wall and deciding to soak the taxpayers and clients for a large payday to concoct some far fetched defence.  Misleading the court is a big no-no and a lot of defence lawyers flirt with it.

I have no issue with the system itself allowing clients to defend themselves, my issue is with when lawyers given mountains of evidence in disclosure dragging out cases when they know their client is guilty. 

Offline the_squid

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Quote
I have no issue with the system itself allowing clients to defend themselves, my issue is with when lawyers given mountains of evidence in disclosure dragging out cases when they know their client is guilty.

So if your lawyer tells you "you're guilty.  We're just going to have to live the obvious facts..."

You think a client is going to say "Duh...  yeah...  let's not worry about it then...   off to jail for the rest of my life"

Defence lawyers don't get to decide to not vigorously defend a client. 
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Offline Blueblood

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So if your lawyer tells you "you're guilty.  We're just going to have to live the obvious facts..."

You think a client is going to say "Duh...  yeah...  let's not worry about it then...   off to jail for the rest of my life"

Defence lawyers don't get to decide to not vigorously defend a client.

It's not just defending it's representing the client.  Sometimes part of that representation is saying your screwed let's see what we can work out so that the judge sees we are not putting society through the expense of a trial.  Should defence counsel advise their clients to lie or defence mislead court to vigorously defend their clients?

Offline ?Impact

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It's not just defending it's representing the client.  Sometimes part of that representation is saying your screwed let's see what we can work out so that the judge sees we are not putting society through the expense of a trial.  Should defence counsel advise their clients to lie or defence mislead court to vigorously defend their clients?

True, and that happens probably way more than it should. Remember the burden of proof is on the prosecution, one is considered innocent until found guilty. The system however is far from perfect, and the defence lawyer may just want to push the case through so he/she can collect the fee - especially if the accused is not independently rich. The system is biased towards those with monetary resources.

Offline Peter F

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...  Should defence counsel advise their clients to lie or defence mislead court to vigorously defend their clients?

Are you claiming defence lawyers advise clients to lie? I think they'd be in a pretty mess should it be found that they did so. Disbarment, fines, perhaps prison. Mislead to vigorously defend clients is absolutely how the adversarial common law system works and the defence thinks their misleading will not be discovered.  But it is difficult to mislead when the Crown has all sorts of evidence gathering powers at its disposal.  It is up to the Crown to prove the case, not up to the defence to prove innocence.  I think you may be happier with a more European style  criminal law system. I probably would too.
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