Author Topic: Airbus buys a large stake in C Series Program  (Read 533 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline wilber

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9121
Re: Airbus buys a large stake in C Series Program
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2017, 06:04:51 pm »
I still think that the F-35 will be the future standard in NATO fighters but politics, trade frictions between us and the US, plus Airbus's stake in Bombardier could take us in a different direction. The teething problems with the F-35 just emphasize that you don't want to be a launch customer when it comes to a new generation anything, unless you have deep pockets.  Fortunately we won't be if we do end up getting them.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline JMT

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3462
  • Location: Waterhen, Manitoba
Re: Airbus buys a large stake in C Series Program
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2018, 03:17:37 pm »
So ahh, I guess that didn't go so well for Boeing.
Like Like x 1 View List

Offline Robert

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
Re: Airbus buys a large stake in C Series Program
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2018, 05:16:19 pm »
not to sully the thread unnecessarily with F-35 updates, but given ongoing attempts by Conservatives/National Post/etc., to question (a non-F-35 interim purchase), I'm somewhat nostalgic for some of the MLW F-35 fanboys who were so insistent that those early iterations were "combat ready" simply because, under political pressure, IOC dates/certification were falsely put forward by the USAF/US Marines. Eventually, however, reality/truth sets in:

108 F-35s Will Not Be Combat Capable --- https://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2017/10/16/108_f-35s_will_not_be_combat_capable_112477.html

F-35s hobbled by parts shortages, slow repairs, audit finds --- https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/f-35s-hobbled-by-parts-shortages-slow-repairs-audit-finds/articleshow/61198609.cms

Maybe someone can provide some sort of proof that the Airforce and Marines intended to deceive the public when they falsely certified these aircraft combat ready......what is the official definition of combat capable, or fully combat capable.....i mean they were cleared to fire or drop most of the legacy wpns in inventory.

The new F-35 Program Executive Officer, Vice Admiral Mat Winter, said his office is exploring the option of leaving 108 aircraft in their current state because the funds to upgrade them to the fully combat-capable configuration would threaten the Air Force’s plans to ramp up production in the coming years.

They have left some F-22 in the same condition, as Training aircraft, so it is practice is not unheard off.


Offline waldo

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8715
Re: Airbus buys a large stake in C Series Program
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2018, 12:42:13 pm »
Maybe someone can provide some sort of proof that the Airforce and Marines intended to deceive the public when they falsely certified these aircraft combat ready......what is the official definition of combat capable, or fully combat capable.....i mean they were cleared to fire or drop most of the legacy wpns in inventory.

you're mixing terms yourself: IOC (Initial Operational Capability) versus FOC (Full Operational Capability... I assume this is what you're referencing to when you state 'fully combat capable'). The USAF has recently introduced its own term, "fully combat ready", as an apparent attempt to cloud the formal FOC designation. Both the USAF and U.S. Marine Corp provided themselves their own IOC designations completely outside of the formal/independent mandatory testing process run by the U.S. Pentagon's Office of the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation (DOT&E)... and the USAF is again doing this in terms of their own, "fully combat ready" designation.

the only branch of the U.S. military that hasn't declared their F-35s as even IOC is the U.S. Navy... said to be in lock-step with the DOT&E's testing requirements. The early designations by the USAF and U.S. Marine Corp were crafted in-step with the international sales campaign's run by Lockheed/F-35 Program Office... where liberal use of "combat ready" was regularly appearing in any media coverage.

Offline wilber

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9121
Re: Airbus buys a large stake in C Series Program
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2018, 09:11:18 pm »
So, the US International Trade Commission shoots down Boeing and rules in favour of Bombardier. Not the end of the story as Boeing is continuing the fight so I don's suppose anything will change on the Super Hornet front.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Robert

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 105
Re: Airbus buys a large stake in C Series Program
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2018, 06:56:56 pm »
you're mixing terms yourself: IOC (Initial Operational Capability) versus FOC (Full Operational Capability... I assume this is what you're referencing to when you state 'fully combat capable'). The USAF has recently introduced its own term, "fully combat ready", as an apparent attempt to cloud the formal FOC designation. Both the USAF and U.S. Marine Corp provided themselves their own IOC designations completely outside of the formal/independent mandatory testing process run by the U.S. Pentagon's Office of the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation (DOT&E)... and the USAF is again doing this in terms of their own, "fully combat ready" designation.

the only branch of the U.S. military that hasn't declared their F-35s as even IOC is the U.S. Navy... said to be in lock-step with the DOT&E's testing requirements. The early designations by the USAF and U.S. Marine Corp were crafted in-step with the international sales campaign's run by Lockheed/F-35 Program Office... where liberal use of "combat ready" was regularly appearing in any media coverage.
[/quote

Ok lets use the terms in the article then, Initial operational capability, what does that mean , according to the chart that you provided they can fire Air to air missile, and they can drop 3 types of air to ground wpns.... So they can go to Capable of going into combat, say dropping stuff on ISIS or syrians etc...or Initial operational " in the Military the word Operational is being ready for combat"...And while the testing is continuing the Airforce and Marines are using these aircraft to defend their nation, or active duty...i don't think they meant to deceive anyone, just confusion on their use of a few words.

http://www.pogo.org/assets/images/straus/2017/f-35-block-plan-chart_575.jpg