Author Topic: Addressing climate change  (Read 8119 times)

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Offline Bubbermiley

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #195 on: August 28, 2019, 08:39:22 am »
It's not easy finding a good used car. They've often got a lot of miles on them already, which is usually why they're being sold. If something is low mileage and in good condition, it's very desirable so there isn't so much depreciation.
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Offline Boges

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #196 on: August 28, 2019, 10:08:45 am »
Tesla definitely markets towards a certain niche.  They aren't going after the mom with 3 kids.  Early adopters always pay a premium for new tech.

When/if the technology hits critical mass all of the car manufacturers will have EV models plus the price will go down.

The point I was trying to make is that EVs and PHEVs aren't being subject to the same type of financing rates as conventional cars. Dealers aren't being giving sweeteners to sell them. It's a case of, either you can afford it or not.

Not exactly the philosophy one should take if driving ICE cars are killing the planet.

Offline cybercoma

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #197 on: August 29, 2019, 07:41:39 am »
Why wouldn't you get one a few years older and save depreciation?
Think about it. Who sells a car that's a few years old? They usually have some kind of problem or have a lot of mileage on them. My wife puts nearly 50000 kms on her car every year for work. She can't get into a used vehicle because she would be flipping them over too frequently. And even though sometimes they come with a warranty, those warranties are far shorter and cover fewer things than a new car warranty. In her case, it makes more sense economically to buy a new vehicle every 6-8 years than buying a used one every 2 or 3.

Offline Boges

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #198 on: August 29, 2019, 08:02:33 am »
Think about it. Who sells a car that's a few years old? They usually have some kind of problem or have a lot of mileage on them. My wife puts nearly 50000 kms on her car every year for work. She can't get into a used vehicle because she would be flipping them over too frequently. And even though sometimes they come with a warranty, those warranties are far shorter and cover fewer things than a new car warranty. In her case, it makes more sense economically to buy a new vehicle every 6-8 years than buying a used one every 2 or 3.

A lot of people Lease cars. Essentially they're just renting those cars for four years and that comes with a mileage limit. So a smart consumer can easily find four-year-old cars with 60-80ks for half price of a new car.

The other avenue, which is less advisable, is buying a former rental. These cars are less than two years old but have already racked up sizeable mileage for the age. But that's a way to get a new-ish car for lower price.

None of this applies for EVs and PHEVs because they're too new to the market. But you can certainly get a good used Conventional Hybrid on the used car market. 

Oh and used car warranties are absolute scams.

Offline Granny

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #199 on: August 29, 2019, 10:48:36 am »
The Misogyny of Climate Deniers
https://newrepublic.com/article/154879/misogyny-climate-deniers

The common themes in the group, they said, were striking: “for climate skeptics … it was not the environment that was threatened, it was a certain kind of modern industrial society built and dominated by their form of masculinity.”
...
“There is a package of values and behaviors connected to a form of masculinity that I call ‘industrial breadwinner masculinity.’ They see the world as separated between humans and nature. They believe humans are obliged to use nature and its resources to make products out of them. And they have a risk perception that nature will tolerate all types of waste. It’s a risk perception that doesn’t think of nature as vulnerable and as something that is possible to be destroyed. For them, economic growth is more important than the environment” Hultman told Deutsche Welle last year.

The corollary to this is that climate science, for skeptics, becomes feminized—or viewed as “oppositional to assumed entitlements of masculine primacy,” Hultman and fellow researcher Paul Pulé wrote in another paper.


This is certainly consistent with what I've observed among the extreme far-right: They are (none too bright) racist, misogynist homophobes and climate-change deniers, all one package ... because it is the package that defends

"a form of masculinity that I call ‘industrial breadwinner masculinity.’ ".

However, the unfortunate people of the extreme far-right who are visible and vocal in public and online generally don't appear to be very successful in the "breadwinner" category ... but have been convinced that their failure to succeed is the fault of ... women, immigrants and climate-change 'propaganda'.

It would be funny ... if they weren't becoming bolder, more militant and more threatening.

Offline MH

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #200 on: August 29, 2019, 11:02:43 am »
You know - something can be true, important and even relevant but ... not worth saying to a general public ?

I feel like the average person will not be able to process the message here, Granny.  It's very high-level. 

Kind of like how the Democrats put a certain type of argument at the forefront - it may be moral to do so but it might not be effective.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #201 on: August 29, 2019, 12:07:12 pm »
A lot of people Lease cars. Essentially they're just renting those cars for four years and that comes with a mileage limit. So a smart consumer can easily find four-year-old cars with 60-80ks for half price of a new car.

Yes, just about every dealer has 3 or 4 year old cars on the lot (former leases) with less than 60-70k on them.  I always buy cars this way, last one i bought had 35k on it, still had the new car smell and was in immaculate condition.  First few years is when cars depreciate the most.
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Offline MH

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #202 on: August 29, 2019, 12:32:20 pm »
Yes, just about every dealer has 3 or 4 year old cars on the lot (former leases) with less than 60-70k on them.  I always buy cars this way, last one i bought had 35k on it, still had the new car smell and was in immaculate condition.  First few years is when cars depreciate the most.

I just bought my newest vehicle - 7 years and 100,000 kilometers.  I think it should last 5-10 years - it was $7K which means about $60-$100 per month.

Offline Boges

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #203 on: August 29, 2019, 12:48:48 pm »
I just bought my newest vehicle - 7 years and 100,000 kilometers.  I think it should last 5-10 years - it was $7K which means about $60-$100 per month.

You financed a $7k car? I hope you didn't do it through the dealer.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 12:54:43 pm by Boges »

Offline Boges

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #204 on: August 29, 2019, 12:57:53 pm »
Another obstacle.

The Ontario Green plate that allows you to use HOV lanes. It's a free incentive that makes conventional hybrids less appealing.

You call up, say Honda, and say I want to test drive a PHEV Honda Insight. Sales Guy will be like, it's special order. But, but I need to drive it first to buy it.

Car companies. . . MAKE THESE EFFING CARS!!!!! Don't treat them like they're some rare commodity that us normo's that can't afford to buy a Tesla, sight on scene, have to fight over.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #205 on: August 29, 2019, 01:15:35 pm »
Why haven't hybrids caught on more?

What's the cost of a hybrid vs a regular car + 10 years of filling a gas tank.
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Offline Boges

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #206 on: August 29, 2019, 03:01:22 pm »
Why haven't hybrids caught on more?

What's the cost of a hybrid vs a regular car + 10 years of filling a gas tank.

Well it's not even Hybrids anymore. You can get those now for the price of a normal mid-sized car.

What people want are EVs. The price of those are still somewhat high.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #207 on: August 29, 2019, 05:36:35 pm »
I've just calculated that if I drive my vehicle for 250,000km over its life-span I will spend about $28,000 on gas..  I don't even have a large vehicle.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #208 on: August 29, 2019, 05:38:56 pm »
Well it's not even Hybrids anymore. You can get those now for the price of a normal mid-sized car.

What people want are EVs. The price of those are still somewhat high.

It's just odd that people either want pure gas vehicles or EVs.  Most people I know are intrigued by EVs but don't actually want one...yet.

Hybrids seem like a great compromise.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #209 on: August 29, 2019, 06:34:30 pm »
Hybrids seem like a great compromise.

Hybrids do cut your petroleum consumption, but EVs eliminate it. Of course if your local power is generated by natural gas or coal then the EV will still contribute to global warming, and the fuel cost may be higher than my estimates below. There are also plug in hybrids like the Chevrolet Volt. It is hard to compare costs because there are way too many variables depending on where you live, and how you drive. My guess at fuel costs for a similar vehicle driven under the same conditions is:

Gas - $100
Diesel - $80
Hybrid - $75
Plug in hybrid - $40
EV - $25