Author Topic: Addressing climate change  (Read 8225 times)

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Online wilber

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #270 on: November 28, 2019, 06:27:58 pm »
Maybe it was designed by Adrian Newey, they say he can see air.
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Offline segnosaur

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #271 on: November 28, 2019, 07:53:28 pm »
It doesn't have a cargo capacity to hold very much.  Nobody will buy a truck with a super small cargo bed unless they just want to look cool and hip, regardless of fuel efficiency.
Doing some googling:

The length of the cargo bed in the Tesla is around 6.5 feet. Depending on the model, the length of the pickup bed on the F150 is between 5.5 feet and 8 feet. The cargo bed on the Dodge Ram is between 5.5 and 6.5 feet. So, the Tesla seems like the Tesla matches pretty well with other pickup trucks. (And the weight it can carry is pretty comparable too.)

I thought the Tesla had a small bed too, but I think its just the way the cab sort of blends into the back of the truck that makes it look like it has a lower capacity than it actually does.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a29891717/tesla-cybertruck-facts/
https://www.oldsaybrookcdj.com/ram-1500-truck-bed-sizes-and-cabin-dimensions/
« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 07:55:44 pm by segnosaur »

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #272 on: November 29, 2019, 01:37:46 pm »
It doesn't have a cargo capacity to hold very much.  Nobody will buy a truck with a super small cargo bed unless they just want to look cool and hip, regardless of fuel efficiency.

Where do you get that idea. The vast majority of pickup trucks have 6Ĺ beds, the exact same as the Tesla. Some are smaller, and some are larger, but today most people opt for a club or crew cab and a 6Ĺ bed. It was not that case 40 years ago, but today people want to drag along the construction crew and/or family instead. I expect, just like every other manufacturer, if you want to carry long things like plywood or drywall, you drop the tailgate. The bigger issue is the load capacity, and here the Tesla is above most pickups. Yes there are things like the Ford Super Duty, and the Ram 3500's that can do more, but those are the exception.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #273 on: November 29, 2019, 01:45:05 pm »
Where do you get that idea. The vast majority of pickup trucks have 6Ĺ beds, the exact same as the Tesla. Some are smaller, and some are larger, but today most people opt for a club or crew cab and a 6Ĺ bed.

I have no idea the dimensions, the bed just looks small from the photos.  This truck isn't geared toward blue collar workers or rural folk (who don't care about EVs and want gas and won't have the access to charging infrastructure as much anyways), they wouldn't touch this futuristic design with a pole, it's geared toward Marty McFly and urban hipsters, but i don't care i'd like to see it on the road because it looks cool and hilarious.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #274 on: November 29, 2019, 01:46:44 pm »
Wilber didn't say it wouldn't have good aerodynamics.   He is looking at it and questioning its functionality. 

Also, if you're towing a trailer that has a flat front, of course it will severely affect the aerodynamic efficiency.   ::)

Yes, a tall trailer will drastically drop your aerodynamic efficiency. That is completely true for all vehicles. What percentage of your driving involves hauling such a trailer? Contractors do that a lot, but then they usually drive a very short distance at relatively low speed (aerodynamic efficiency is exponentially related to speed). If you are hauling around a super sized fifth wheel all the time or large horse trailer, then this is probably not the truck for you.

Functionality all depends on what you what to do with the thing. The market for pickups is huge, and only a small segment of that needs to carry 6000lbs, or tow a 25,000lb fifth wheel.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #275 on: November 29, 2019, 01:49:38 pm »
This truck isn't geared toward blue collar workers or rural folk (who don't care about EVs and want gas and won't have the access to charging infrastructure as much anyways), they wouldn't touch this futuristic design with a pole, it's geared toward Marty McFly and urban hipsters, but i don't care i'd like to see it on the road because it looks cool and hilarious.

Blue collar workers and rural folk would be ideal users of this pickup. They care about cost, and here it has a huge advantage. They do the vast majority of their trips local, and have the charging infrastructure at their home where the truck is always filled up and they may never have to visit another gas station in their lives.

Your Marty McFly, urban hipsters comment is ignorant.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #276 on: November 29, 2019, 02:50:12 pm »
Blue collar workers and rural folk would be ideal users of this pickup. They care about cost, and here it has a huge advantage. They do the vast majority of their trips local, and have the charging infrastructure at their home where the truck is always filled up and they may never have to visit another gas station in their lives.

Your Marty McFly, urban hipsters comment is ignorant.

Try finding a Tesla charge station in a rural area.  EVs are urban transport so far.  Until they start putting charging stations at boat ramps, popular quadding and snowmobile areas, EVs just wonít be practical. 

This wonít be pulling a travel trailer to northern BC anytime soon.  Not until there are 1000+ km ranges with a load.  You may be able to do it....   but itís not practical. 
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #277 on: November 29, 2019, 03:04:00 pm »
Try finding a Tesla charge station in a rural area.  EVs are urban transport so far.  Until they start putting charging stations at boat ramps, popular quadding and snowmobile areas, EVs just wonít be practical. 

The rural boat owner can drive to the lake and back several times on a single charge, while the urban one take 3 hours one-way.

Offline segnosaur

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #278 on: November 29, 2019, 03:08:12 pm »
I have no idea the dimensions, the bed just looks small from the photos.
Again, the fact that it 'looks small' doesn't necessarily mean that it is small.

A combination of the design (the way the cab leads into the cargo area) and the overall size of the truck may make it look like it has limited capacity, but would (in theory) meet people's cargo capacity as well as most other trucks of the same category.
Quote
This truck isn't geared toward blue collar workers or rural folk (who don't care about EVs and want gas and won't have the access to charging infrastructure as much anyways), they wouldn't touch this futuristic design with a pole, it's geared toward Marty McFly and urban hipsters...
Now there might be some truth to this... that some people might be adverse to this vehicle because its design is too radical for them. (For example, I have a few older family members who had or have pickup trucks, and I suspect most of them would avoid it because, well, they are older and less interested in 'new' stuff.)

But that doesn't mean the truck wouldn't suit their needs, or doesn't have the capacity that they would want, just that their own preferences would keep them from buying one.

(Well, there is also the problems that Tesla has with availability and quality control of their product lines.)

Online wilber

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #279 on: November 29, 2019, 03:08:28 pm »
I also think range and charging will be a big issue with electric trucks, existing batteries just don't hold enough energy for heavy duty use.

https://www.tfltruck.com/2019/11/forget-the-tug-of-war-all-electric-trucks-have-these-two-major-flaws-video/

The mileage on my diesel certainly suffers when towing but even when hauling a 12,000 lb trailer I have around 300 miles range depending on the terrain, and I can fill it up almost anywhere in 15 minutes.

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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #280 on: November 29, 2019, 03:17:23 pm »
The mileage on my diesel certainly suffers when towing but even when hauling a 12,000 lb trailer I have around 300 miles range depending on the terrain, and I can fill it up almost anywhere in 15 minutes.

Yes, we need to get data on the mileage under load. We know the unloaded mileage can be 500+, but what hit do you take with a trailer, etc.

Online wilber

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #281 on: November 29, 2019, 04:03:10 pm »
Yes, we need to get data on the mileage under load. We know the unloaded mileage can be 500+, but what hit do you take with a trailer, etc.

A huge hit. The Model X in the article has a 5000 lb tow rating. Towing a 4400 lb horse trailer their range was cut by 2/3 over the the same circuit when not towing.

Watch the video, it is quite enlightening and surprising.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 04:05:06 pm by wilber »
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #282 on: November 30, 2019, 12:14:54 am »
Blue collar workers and rural folk would be ideal users of this pickup. They care about cost, and here it has a huge advantage. They do the vast majority of their trips local, and have the charging infrastructure at their home where the truck is always filled up and they may never have to visit another gas station in their lives.

Your Marty McFly, urban hipsters comment is ignorant.

I know a lot of contractors and they wouldn't buy this truck, it looks ridiculous.  If they build one that looks closer to a standard pickup they'd be much more likely to buy one.  The EV tech is fine, the design isn't geared to them quite clearly.
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Online wilber

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #283 on: November 30, 2019, 01:56:07 pm »
 Electric motors are the best for moving heavy loads but existing battery technology just isn't up to storing enough energy for sustained high load operation.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #284 on: November 30, 2019, 03:41:48 pm »
Any poster looked into EV battery life in cold climates?   Itís not a pretty picture.

Quote
AAA tested the BMW i3s, Chevrolet Bolt and Nissan Leaf from the 2018 model year, and the 2017 Tesla Model S 75D and Volkswagen e-Golf. All have a range of at least 100 miles per charge. They were tested on a dynamometer, which is like a treadmill, in a climate-controlled cell.

The automobile club tested the cars at 20 degrees and 95 degrees, comparing the range to when they were tested at 75 degrees Fahrenheit, according to a report on the study.

At 20 degrees, the average driving range fell by 12 percent when the carís cabin heater was not used. When the heater was turned on, the range dropped by 41 percent, AAA said.

At 95 degrees, range dropped 4 percent without use of air conditioning, and fell by 17 percent when the cabin was cooled, the study found.
https://apnews.com/04029bd1e0a94cd59ff9540a398c12d1