Author Topic: Addressing climate change  (Read 1748 times)

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Offline Omni

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2019, 08:41:58 pm »
Would you buy one on your next car purchase?  For me i'd 1. have to do the cost calculations over its lifetime, and 2. i'm waiting to see how these things work out, they're a new tech, how do they hold up etc, and 3. There's issues with charging, unless you just do city driving.

I'd be a hybrid for now if i went that route.  Maybe in another 10 yrs they'l be fully mainstream.

I would/will buy one because I don't have to worry about the charging issues on my trips. I don't think EV's have been around long enough to get a handle on their life cycle but once again, the maintenance costs are obviously much less simply due to how simple they are. I know that just about every taxi I see on the road in my city is a Hybrid and I have ridden in many and the owners/drives love 'em.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2019, 09:08:47 pm »
The short haul harbor to harbor float plane operator out of Vancouver/Victoria plans to start converting it's Turbo Beavers to electric power toward the end of this year.   
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Offline Poonlight Graham

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2019, 09:16:28 pm »
I know that just about every taxi I see on the road in my city is a Hybrid and I have ridden in many and the owners/drives love 'em.

Really?  interesting.  A friend of mine rented a hybrid on a trip and loved it because the gas hardly had to be filled.  Will have to keep my eye out on the roadsat the taxis.
"The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth"  - African proverb

Offline waldo

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2019, 03:15:19 am »
In the meantime the Canadian economy struggles because the world does not want to buy anything from us other than resources and a place to launder money.

no worries! Jason Kenney has a $30 million 'Energy War Room' ready to... address climate change; enabled by a compliant ConMedia:

Quote
Canadian news media company Postmedia has hired Alberta Premier Jason Kenney's former chief of staff (& 2019 election campaign manager), Nick Koolsbergen, to lobby the new United Conservative Party government on how it could be involved with the new "energy war room" promised by Kenney during the recent Alberta election campaign

per the Alberta Lobbyist Registry: "To discuss ways Postmedia could be involved in the government's energy war room"


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Offline Granny

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2019, 08:38:15 pm »
Sad.
Post media used to at least pretend to be a real news media company. Lol

Could it be any more incestuous?
Canadian news media company Postmedia has hired Alberta Premier Jason Kenney's former chief of staff (& 2019 election campaign manager), Nick Koolsbergen, to lobby the new United Conservative Party government on how it could be involved with the new "energy war room" promised by Kenney during the recent Alberta election campaign".

War Room.
I can't decide if this is a cartoon or just random entertainment.
Or war.
Lol

I'll let the investors and banks take care of winding down the oil industry.

http://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/investing/video/mccreath-alberta-s-oil-sector-is-in-for-a-very-rough-2019~1551861
"McCreath: Alberta's oil sector is in for 'a very rough' 2019
BNN Bloomberg Commentator Andrew McCreath discusses the challenges oil stocks will face following business plan releases and the impact on the Albertan economy. He also notes, on the heels of GM announcing its restructuring plan, that it's up to the Canadian government to handle how people will be employed in the tech age."

« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 08:54:11 pm by Granny »

Offline waldo

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2019, 09:40:16 am »
Sad. Post media used to at least pretend to be a real news media company. Lol

Postmedia is definitely ConMedia's pack-leader!
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Offline Granny

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2019, 07:12:08 pm »
Global economy would save up to $160 trillion by shifting to renewables, electric cars
https://thinkprogress.org/renewable-energy-electric-vehicles-climate-cost-4eb542fa68fe
Imagine a world where 85% of all electricity comes from renewable sources, there are over one billion electric vehicles on the road, and we are on track to preserve a livable climate for our children and future generations.
The International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA) reported this week that such a future is not merely possible by 2050, but thanks to plummeting prices in key clean energy technologies, the cost of saving the climate has dropped dramatically.


Factoring in environmental costs (in your taxes) of fossil fuel energy, It's already cheaper to go renewable, and getting cheaper all the time.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 07:15:12 pm by Granny »

Offline Omni

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2019, 07:45:56 pm »
Global economy would save up to $160 trillion by shifting to renewables, electric cars
https://thinkprogress.org/renewable-energy-electric-vehicles-climate-cost-4eb542fa68fe
Imagine a world where 85% of all electricity comes from renewable sources, there are over one billion electric vehicles on the road, and we are on track to preserve a livable climate for our children and future generations.
The International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA) reported this week that such a future is not merely possible by 2050, but thanks to plummeting prices in key clean energy technologies, the cost of saving the climate has dropped dramatically.


Factoring in environmental costs (in your taxes) of fossil fuel energy, It's already cheaper to go renewable, and getting cheaper all the time.

And here's another example of just that.

 The cost of producing one megawatt-hour of electricity a standard way to measure electricity production is now around $50 for solar power, according to Lazard's math. The cost of producing one megawatt-hour of electricity from coal, by comparison, is $102 more than double the cost of solar.

https://www.businessinsider.com/solar-power-cost-decrease-2018-5

It would seem fairly simple to figure out that operating a solar powered electricity producing plant would be a lot easier and cheaper than a coal fired one.

Offline TimG

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2019, 07:55:22 pm »
It would seem fairly simple to figure out that operating a solar powered electricity producing plant would be a lot easier and cheaper than a coal fired one.
Except the real cost of providing 7x24 reliable power is not simply a question of of the cost per megawatt. What matters is the costs imposed on the grid by a power source and sources like wind and solar impose large costs which are not factored into those numbers.

Offline Omni

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2019, 07:58:15 pm »
Except the real cost of providing 7x24 reliable power is not simply a question of of the cost per megawatt. What matters is the costs imposed on the grid by a power source and sources like wind and solar impose large costs which are not factored into those numbers.

Why do you think connecting solar panels to the grid would be such a cost aside from initially producing the panels?

Offline MH

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2019, 08:31:01 pm »
I would guess startup costs, as well as the estimated capacity it can add.

Offline TimG

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2019, 08:34:44 pm »
Why do you think connecting solar panels to the grid would be such a cost aside from initially producing the panels?
Solar/wind do not provide reliable 24x7 power nor do they produce power on demand. This means the grid needs to have compensators that can handle the solar/wind coming online and disappearing. In small quantities the grid already deals with such variability but as the quantity of renewables increases the grid has to provide dedicated power sources that only exist to provide backup for renewables. The capital cost of building and running these additional power sources has to be included in any calculation of costs. If these backups are gas then these renewables also emit CO2 that should be included in the costs of wind/solar.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 08:37:07 pm by TimG »

Offline Omni

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2019, 08:43:39 pm »
Solar/wind do not provide reliable 24x7 power nor do they produce power on demand. This means the grid needs to have compensators that can handle the solar/wind coming online and disappearing. In small quantities the grid already deals with such variability but as the quantity of renewables increases the grid has to provide dedicated power sources that only exist to provide backup for renewables. The capital cost of building and running these additional power sources has to be included in any calculation of costs. If these backups are gas then these renewables also emit CO2 that should be included in the costs of wind/solar.

You don't have to build additional power sources to backup renewables. You just throttle back the existing ones when renewables are producing.

Offline TimG

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2019, 09:29:46 pm »
You don't have to build additional power sources to backup renewables. You just throttle back the existing ones when renewables are producing.
You need to build completely redundant capacity since you can't risk blackouts if renewable output goes to zero. This doubles the capital cost of renewables if you use backups like gas. If you try to provide backups with batteries you need enough backup to deal with the statistically unlikely but possible periods where renewables could be not producing due to weather events. The cost of such batteries is too expensive to even consider.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Addressing climate change
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2019, 09:35:17 pm »
You need to build completely redundant capacity since you can't risk blackouts if renewable output goes to zero. This doubles the capital cost of renewables if you use backups like gas. If you try to provide backups with batteries you need enough backup to deal with the statistically unlikely but possible periods where renewables could be not producing due to weather events. The cost of such batteries is too expensive to even consider.

No you do not need redundant capacity. When the sun is up the solar panel for instance simply feeds into the existing grid. When the sun goes down the existing system is still standing by.