Author Topic: 2021 Federal Election Culture (Waldo free)  (Read 2583 times)

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Offline segnosaur

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Re: 2021 Federal Election Culture (Waldo free)
« Reply #150 on: September 21, 2021, 08:40:15 pm »
Re: possible coalitions in the Canadian system failing...
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I think the reason why is that the coalition was to include the Bloc, a party rooted in Quebec nationalism and separation.
Had they been able to put together a coalition with just the Liberals and NDP, it might have been better received.
"Recollections vary".

I don't remember that part, I just remember them being pissed they didn't get Harper.
Well, if it means anything:

From: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/liberals-ndp-bloc-sign-deal-on-proposed-coalition-1.700119 (from 2008)
The Liberals and New Democrats signed an agreement on Monday to form an unprecedented coalition government, with a written pledge of support from the Bloc Québécois, if they are successful in ousting the minority Conservative government in a coming confidence vote.

it wouldn't have been a "full" coalition (with Bloc members serving in cabinet), but in my opinion, their participation in the agreement would have been enough to poison it.

Offline kimmy

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Re: 2021 Federal Election Culture (Waldo free)
« Reply #151 on: September 21, 2021, 09:56:26 pm »
Maryum Monsef lost her seat.  Bye biznatch.

This is an addition by subtraction kind of thing, kind of like the CPC losing Derek Sloan. She was a low-performing cabinet minister even before she called the Taliban "her brothers".  She wouldn't have been anywhere near a cabinet post if not for the Trudeau promise of a gender-balanced cabinet. With Monsef and two other mediocre female cabinet ministers gone plus Catherine McKenna retiring from politics, the Liberals will have to dig deep into the back benches to find more female MPs to put in cabinet. 4 women even less talented than Monsef will soon have cabinet posts. Ponder that for a moment.

 -k
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: 2021 Federal Election Culture (Waldo free)
« Reply #152 on: September 21, 2021, 10:03:53 pm »
This is an addition by subtraction kind of thing, kind of like the CPC losing Derek Sloan. She was a low-performing cabinet minister even before she called the Taliban "her brothers".  She wouldn't have been anywhere near a cabinet post if not for the Trudeau promise of a gender-balanced cabinet. With Monsef and two other mediocre female cabinet ministers gone plus Catherine McKenna retiring from politics, the Liberals will have to dig deep into the back benches to find more female MPs to put in cabinet. 4 women even less talented than Monsef will soon have cabinet posts. Ponder that for a moment.

 -k

Really?  Are you actually this cynical that you think every new female MP will not be worthy of a cabinet post?

What do you think of this one?  All the male MPs are better than her too?

Sudds worked as an economist in the federal government for twelve years before becoming the inaugural President and Executive Director of the Kanata North Business Association, after being appointed to the role by a hiring committee that consisted of her predecessor on Council, Marianne Wilkinson.[6] From November 2017 to November 2018, Sudds was the inaugural Executive Director at the CIO Strategy Council, a national technology council.[7] In March 2018, she announced her decision to run for Ottawa City Council, Kanata North.

Sudds has been a longtime volunteer with the Kanata Food Cupboard and the Ottawa Network for Education.

Offline kimmy

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Re: 2021 Federal Election Culture (Waldo free)
« Reply #153 on: September 21, 2021, 10:11:56 pm »
Really?  Are you actually this cynical that you think every new female MP will not be worthy of a cabinet post?

I'm not sure that all males in cabinet are great finds either.  Randy Boissoneault will get an automatic cabinet post too, but I'm not sure if he has any qualifications beyond having a seat in Alberta.

But in the case of Monsef, that such a mediocre individual was a mainstay of cabinet is a testament to the lack of "bench strength" among female MPs. If Monsef was good enough to be in Cabinet, who are the women behind her who are about to get promotions? We're about to find out!

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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: 2021 Federal Election Culture (Waldo free)
« Reply #154 on: September 22, 2021, 01:57:06 am »
"Recollections vary".

I don't remember that part, I just remember them being pissed they didn't get Harper.

Well, if it means anything:

From: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/liberals-ndp-bloc-sign-deal-on-proposed-coalition-1.700119 (from 2008)
The Liberals and New Democrats signed an agreement on Monday to form an unprecedented coalition government, with a written pledge of support from the Bloc Québécois, if they are successful in ousting the minority Conservative government in a coming confidence vote.

it wouldn't have been a "full" coalition (with Bloc members serving in cabinet), but in my opinion, their participation in the agreement would have been enough to poison it.

That's actually not what I meant with 'recollections vary'.  I know the Bloc was included in the coalition, I just don't remember the outrage being because because of it.

I remember on the old site, and also in the office I was working at the time, a lot of people were just peeved that the party with the most of number of seats wasn't about to form a government.   

I don't remember anyone citing the Bloc as their reason.  It was Stephane Dion they hated. 

Offline segnosaur

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Re: 2021 Federal Election Culture (Waldo free)
« Reply #155 on: September 22, 2021, 02:59:26 am »
Quote
"Recollections vary".

I don't remember that part, I just remember them being pissed they didn't get Harper.

Well, if it means anything:

From: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/liberals-ndp-bloc-sign-deal-on-proposed-coalition-1.700119 (from 2008)
The Liberals and New Democrats signed an agreement on Monday to form an unprecedented coalition government, with a written pledge of support from the Bloc Québécois
That's actually not what I meant with 'recollections vary'.  I know the Bloc was included in the coalition, I just don't remember the outrage being because because of it.

I remember on the old site, and also in the office I was working at the time, a lot of people were just peeved that the party with the most of number of seats wasn't about to form a government.   

I don't remember anyone citing the Bloc as their reason.  It was Stephane Dion they hated.
It might have depended on what part of the country you were in.

But then, even if there wasn't an immediate backlash against an "agreement with the separatists", it certainly would have been made an issue by the conservatives.

From: https://policyoptions.irpp.org/magazines/the-year-in-review-2/surviving-the-coalition-the-parliamentary-crisis-of-2008/
The coalition leaders staged a big public signing of their agreement and decided to trot out Gilles Duceppe as if he were a full partner....Harper gave a rousing 45-minute speech...The speech attacked the coalition as an illegitimate, separatist-propelled power grab... Harper fumed. “Mr. Speaker, the highest principle of Canadian democracy is that if one wants to be prime minister, one gets one’s mandate from the Canadian people and not from Quebec separatists.
...
Duceppe had warned the Liberals about handling it properly...English Canada, Duceppe told them, would not react favourably to his presence.
...
Harper’s next move was to...ask the governor general to shut down Parliament...Harper had turned public opinion so effectively that it was now obvious...where Canadians stood....Most of the PM’s strategists favoured the prorogation. Kory Teneycke was one who did not. He felt...the governor general would not turn power over to the coalition — not given the Bloc involvement and where public opinion stood.

Offline The Cynic

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Re: 2021 Federal Election Culture (Waldo free)
« Reply #156 on: September 22, 2021, 04:03:14 pm »
Really?  Are you actually this cynical that you think every new female MP will not be worthy of a cabinet post?

What do you think of this one?  All the male MPs are better than her too?

Sudds worked as an economist in the federal government for twelve years before becoming the inaugural President and Executive Director of the Kanata North Business Association, after being appointed to the role by a hiring committee that consisted of her predecessor on Council, Marianne Wilkinson.[6] From November 2017 to November 2018, Sudds was the inaugural Executive Director at the CIO Strategy Council, a national technology council.[7] In March 2018, she announced her decision to run for Ottawa City Council, Kanata North.

Sudds has been a longtime volunteer with the Kanata Food Cupboard and the Ottawa Network for Education.


You mean she was given the job by a friend. And what did she accomplish there? Anything at all?
Face reality. If appointments were based on merit they would not be using a hard-coded gender quota.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 04:04:50 pm by The Cynic »

Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: 2021 Federal Election Culture (Waldo free)
« Reply #157 on: September 22, 2021, 04:30:24 pm »
Really?  Are you actually this cynical that you think every new female MP will not be worthy of a cabinet post?

They may or may not be, we have no idea because the positions aren't chosen based on merit, but rather on your skin pigment and what swings between your legs.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: 2021 Federal Election Culture (Waldo free)
« Reply #158 on: September 22, 2021, 04:36:03 pm »
You mean she was given the job by a friend. And what did she accomplish there? Anything at all?
Face reality. If appointments were based on merit they would not be using a hard-coded gender quota.

She was?  How do you know this?

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: 2021 Federal Election Culture (Waldo free)
« Reply #159 on: September 22, 2021, 04:37:36 pm »
They may or may not be, we have no idea because the positions aren't chosen based on merit, but rather on your skin pigment and what swings between your legs.

You mean political positions are political?  Wow what insight.
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Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: 2021 Federal Election Culture (Waldo free)
« Reply #160 on: September 22, 2021, 05:15:31 pm »
You mean political positions are political?  Wow what insight.

Yes based on identity politics where they openly discriminate against males and caucasians, which they call "diversity" and "equity" because that sounds a lot better.  But the black-faced white man who pushes this and who sexually assaulted a reporter and physically assaulted a female MP in Parliament gets to keep his job of course.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: 2021 Federal Election Culture (Waldo free)
« Reply #161 on: September 22, 2021, 06:26:33 pm »
Yes based on identity politics where they openly discriminate against males and caucasians, which they call "diversity" and "equity" because that sounds a lot better.  But the black-faced white man who pushes this and who sexually assaulted a reporter and physically assaulted a female MP in Parliament gets to keep his job of course.

Parliament can select a different MP to be PM.
Once again…. You’re upset that political positions are selected politically.  It seems like a bizarre thing to be upset about.

I don’t care who’s in cabinet positions.  I’ll judge the government on how well they have done governing.  If Trudeau selected a harem, I wouldn’t care.  If they did a good job, I’d say he picked well.
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Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: 2021 Federal Election Culture (Waldo free)
« Reply #162 on: September 22, 2021, 07:30:01 pm »
Parliament can select a different MP to be PM.
Once again…. You’re upset that political positions are selected politically.  It seems like a bizarre thing to be upset about.

Competence is better than virtue signaling identity politics.  These people are running the country and massive government departments.  Also, much of public sector management is chosen Trudeau's way, and increasingly the private sector as well.

We're in head-to-head competition with China who are trying everything in their power to overtake us and we're caught up worrying if our government heads are bilingual ethnic-skinned women with indigenous roots rather than if they are the best people for the job.  The previous GG was a crazy person chosen because she was a bilingual female.  Maryum Monsef was Minister of Democratic Institutions and Gender Equality who calls the totalitarian anti-female Taliban her "brothers" while she lies about how her and her family obtained fraudulent immigration status in this country.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: 2021 Federal Election Culture (Waldo free)
« Reply #163 on: September 22, 2021, 08:22:14 pm »
Parliament can select a different MP to be PM.

Maybe Trudeau will step down so he can give his job to a woman. But he won't because he's self-serving, yet he's perfectly willing to deny jobs to a great many other white men across the the government based on the discriminatory grounds of gender and race.

Congrats squid you are woke.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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Offline segnosaur

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Re: 2021 Federal Election Culture (Waldo free)
« Reply #164 on: September 24, 2021, 10:22:27 am »
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It could be the fact that we have so few viable national parties.
...
In Canada, we usually end up with 3 national parties with a significant presence in parliament, and 2 parties seem to dominate. It makes it trickier to put together a coalition, since you have fewer possible alliances
That’s due to FPTP.
Yes, that's probably a major part of it, with newer, smaller parties having a more difficult time obtaining seats. (Although I am sure history has something to do with it too...)
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With a system that better represents the electorate, despite getting more popular vote, the parties on the left side of the spectrum would likely rule as a coalition.
Actually I would say its hard to predict what would happen if we used a different voting system. Its possible that instead of the current "Big conservative/Liberal, medium NDP, smaller green/Bloc/PPC, you might see other newer parties appear all over the political spectrum, or parties may start shifting their policies. (Maybe if we had a different voting system a few decades ago, we'd still have the Progressive Conservative party around.)

You might see Liberal/NDP coalitions, you might also see Conservative/PPC coalitions (not that I would want that). You might also see Liberal/Conservative coalitions, if we ever got to the point where neither the conservatives nor the Liberals would ever be able to form a majority, but they were concerned about extremism from both ends of the political spectrum.
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