Author Topic: 2021 federal budget  (Read 1289 times)

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Offline Nipples Von Graham

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2021 federal budget
« on: April 18, 2021, 08:36:29 pm »
Muck raking goes here.

Early reports of a 400 billion deficit for 2020 fiscal year, 2 billion for national childcare (plus we already give money to parents for childcare).

Be interesting to see what budget is projected for this coming fiscal.  My guess is...150-200 billion?
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

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Offline wilber

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Re: 2021 federal budget
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2021, 09:40:47 pm »
Looks like we are on track to double the federal debt in two years. Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline eyeball

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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: 2021 federal budget
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2021, 12:51:24 am »
(plus we already give money to parents for childcare).

Childcare subsidy is provincial.  If you mean CCB, it's not for childcare, it's just a general benefit.

Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 federal budget
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2021, 01:41:27 pm »
g-damn l/Liberal media!


Offline waldo

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Re: 2021 federal budget
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2021, 02:07:58 pm »
say it ain't so! Eric O'Foole purposely parsing Minister Freeland's statement - oh my!

#ContextMatters

Quote from: Finance Minister Chrystia Freeland
I really believe COVID-19 has created a window of political opportunity & maybe an epiphany as you put it, on the importance of early learning & childcare


Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: 2021 federal budget
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2021, 02:36:34 pm »
Why don't we just pay for childcare when there's a global pandemic once every century?  If we need it for a year and a half once per century does that mean everyone should get it for free all the time indefinitely?  What's the logic in what Freeland is saying?  I don't understand the argument, other than "we're spending tons of money on COVID and stimulus and have a good excuse for it so let's just shove national childcare into it so it's easier for voters to swallow given they've already swallowed 400 billion in COVID money already".

Maybe if the feds, provinces, and municipalities would get off their butts and fix the housing crisis people could afford their own childcare.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: 2021 federal budget
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2021, 03:13:56 pm »
Why don't we just pay for childcare when there's a global pandemic once every century?  If we need it for a year and a half once per century does that mean everyone should get it for free all the time indefinitely?  What's the logic in what Freeland is saying?  I don't understand the argument, other than "we're spending tons of money on COVID and stimulus and have a good excuse for it so let's just shove national childcare into it so it's easier for voters to swallow given they've already swallowed 400 billion in COVID money already".

Maybe if the feds, provinces, and municipalities would get off their butts and fix the housing crisis people could afford their own childcare.

I think they're trying to come up with a standard across the country for childcare.  Quebec is really good about the issue because obviously they are concerned about population growth and want to promote it.

BC under the "Liberals" (who are really conservatives) didn't offer much.  The NDP has done a decent job but the threshold is pretty low for qualifying. 

It kind of makes sense to make it a federal issue and it's not really just about the pandemic.  Anything after one kid, daycare starts becoming unreasonably expensive and people either forego another kid or it takes women out of the labour market for a number of years to raise their kids.

I know people inevitably turn it into a 'don't have kids' argument, but without getting too philosophical, it makes sense that it becomes a federal issue under the presumption that people do want kids and women's careers are hindered in doing so.

Offline wilber

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Re: 2021 federal budget
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2021, 03:49:11 pm »
By paying for these programs with deficit spending we are really passing the cost of them on to to the very children being cared for. Some may think that is fair but it is also reality. Because we have no intention of paying off debt, future generations will  have the added cost of paying for every generation preceding them.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: 2021 federal budget
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2021, 04:24:01 pm »
By paying for these programs with deficit spending we are really passing the cost of them on to to the very children being cared for. Some may think that is fair but it is also reality. Because we have no intention of paying off debt, future generations will  have the added cost of paying for every generation preceding them.

Nobody is going to pay much of anything off.  We'll just be paying the interest and so will they.  As long as paying the interest is cheaper than actually paying off the debt there's little incentive to pay off the debt.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline wilber

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Re: 2021 federal budget
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2021, 07:24:20 pm »
Nobody is going to pay much of anything off.  We'll just be paying the interest and so will they.  As long as paying the interest is cheaper than actually paying off the debt there's little incentive to pay off the debt.

Yes except if we just keep borrowing and not paying it off, each generation gets to service all the debt from previous generations on top of their own. Do you think it would be right for you to be servicing debt that paid for your great great grand parent's social programs and every generation in between?
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: 2021 federal budget
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2021, 07:35:54 pm »
Yes except if we just keep borrowing and not paying it off, each generation gets to service all the debt from previous generations on top of their own. Do you think it would be right for you to be servicing debt that paid for your great great grand parent's social programs and every generation in between?

No but all the gov cares about is dept-to-gdp so that's mainly what they'll look at.  It's politics.  Freebies win elections, Trudeau's approval rating has gone up quite bit since giving out 400 billion.  Imagine if they clawed back some freebie, like cut Old Age security or something, people would be cheesed.

The deficit this year Liberals projected at 150 billion, just what I prediction.  But I get that, still lots of EI claims etc, and they're going to add more stimulus.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline wilber

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Re: 2021 federal budget
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2021, 08:11:38 pm »
No but all the gov cares about is dept-to-gdp so that's mainly what they'll look at.  It's politics.  Freebies win elections, Trudeau's approval rating has gone up quite bit since giving out 400 billion.  Imagine if they clawed back some freebie, like cut Old Age security or something, people would be cheesed.

The deficit this year Liberals projected at 150 billion, just what I prediction.  But I get that, still lots of EI claims etc, and they're going to add more stimulus.

The problem is adding freebees when you don't have the money to pay for them and never will so you just keep borrowing to finance them.

As I said  before, Debt to GDP nonsense is just about claiming we can depend on infinite growth to justify infinite borrowing. When the growth has a pickup, future generations get screwed.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: 2021 federal budget
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2021, 09:32:11 pm »
By paying for these programs with deficit spending we are really passing the cost of them on to to the very children being cared for. Some may think that is fair but it is also reality. Because we have no intention of paying off debt, future generations will  have the added cost of paying for every generation preceding them.

Well, you know I agree with you about the pandemic spending and the frivolous lack of due diligence, but childcare is a good one.  I won't be one to benefit from by the time everything gets passed so I don't say this for me.  I agreed with the idea even in 2006 when Paul Martin ran with it as a campaign promise and I had no intention on ever becoming a parent at that point.

In the short term it helps get the job market going.  There has been a mass exodus of women from the work force because of the pandemic.

In the long term, it's a good measure as I mentioned in my previous post to ensure that parents (mostly mothers), don't end up taking too many years off in order to have children.  Many don't end up going back to work because their skills are not longer current.


Offline eyeball

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Re: 2021 federal budget
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2021, 09:41:57 pm »
The problem is adding freebees when you don't have the money to pay for them and never will so you just keep borrowing to finance them.

As I said  before, Debt to GDP nonsense is just about claiming we can depend on infinite growth to justify infinite borrowing. When the growth has a pickup, future generations get screwed.
Yes but doesn't the real nonsense start with the economic precept that it must grow or we die? When you think you're going to die its easy to claim or justify virtually anything.

Growth will clearly have to pickup off planet which is why I keep pointing at that asteroid Psyche that's worth a cool $10 quadrillion. Apparently there's only 4 quadrillion dollars presently circulating on Earth.  Future generations are going to need shades the future is so bright.  I don't think it will be hard to justify borrowing against that with the understanding of course that we need to start actually making progress towards getting to Psyche or better yet getting Psyche into Earth orbit.  Perhaps the minute that asteroid starts inching closer to Earth the more Debt to GDP will matter again.