Author Topic: 2019 Canadian Federal Election  (Read 1768 times)

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Offline wilber

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Re: 2019 Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2019, 08:55:04 am »
Yes, I know how many seats they have.  If you left it at that, you’d be correct...  pointless, but correct.  Instead you go off about how Vancouver is an island...    ::)

And still the west doesn’t really determine federal elections. 

You’re spinning your wheels on a pointless argument.

Liberal  seats in BC are concentrated on the south coast, they aren’t representative of the province as a whole.

We all know that unless the vote in the east is close, the west doesn’t decide elections. That still doesn’t excuse easterners from viewing the west as some sort of colony.

As I said before, only four  provinces contribute more to federal coffers than they get in return and three of them are west of Manitoba.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 08:56:58 am by wilber »
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Offline JMT

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Re: 2019 Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2019, 08:57:24 am »
Liberal  seats in BC are concentrated on the south coast, they aren’t representative of the province as a whole.

How many people live on the south coast of BC?  Land doesn't vote.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: 2019 Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2019, 10:27:57 am »
How many people live on the south coast of BC?  Land doesn't vote.

Only most of them....

Offline wilber

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Re: 2019 Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2019, 10:48:25 am »
How many people live on the south coast of BC?  Land doesn't vote.

So why give the vote to anyone else in the province if they are just redundant? That’s the attitude I am talking about the east writes off the west because of population  and the Vancouver writes off the rest of B.C. for the same reason and you can’t understand why people resent it.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: 2019 Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2019, 11:14:56 am »
So why give the vote to anyone else in the province if they are just redundant? That’s the attitude I am talking about the east writes off the west because of population  and the Vancouver writes off the rest of B.C. for the same reason and you can’t understand why people resent it.

If they all voted Conservative from Matsqui to the Sunshine Coast (what you call "Vancouver"), would that be better for some reason?  I don't understand your latest resentment... 

To sum up:
  • People vote for different parties in different regions of BC
  • The Lower Mainland/Fraser Valley/Sunshine Coast voted Liberal
  • Wilber yells at clouds.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: 2019 Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2019, 11:33:36 am »
He brought in a completely revamped child benefit system,

Better for Canadians how?

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he adjusted the tax brackets a net loss to the treasury

Better for Canadians how?

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he increased the guaranteed income supplement for single seniors,

But he can't pay for it.  Anyone can give out money if they don't have to account for it through revenues. And the GIS is still based on your income, with no asset test, so seniors still living in a house can mooch off the fed while seniors who downsize responsibly get nothing for their sacrifice.

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he made changes to the CPP which will result in fewer poor seniors and less pressure on the federal treasury in the form of GIS in the future,

What changes?  More money he can't pay for?

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he banned tankers on the northern BC coast (very popular in BC and most of Canada outside of Alberta),

Killing more pipelines, Bye North Gateway pipeline. killing mutual fund returns for retired seniors across the country who depend on them to live. 

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he brought back the long form census as promised,

Most Canadians yes for some reason do enjoy the gov coercing them by force of gun & club to answer personal questions.  He also attempted to fleece our banking records.

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he introduced a national carbon tax, something most Canadians are in favour of. 

Support hovers around 50%: https://ipolitics.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/ARI-Carbon-Tax-Poll.jpeg

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Electoral reform fell flat, sure, but oh well.

We lied, and then when called on it we lied as to why we lied.
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Offline JMT

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Re: 2019 Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2019, 03:46:04 pm »
Better for Canadians how?

it eliminated a series of credits and payment programs and consolidated them into one program, focusing the money to those with less.

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Better for Canadians how?

Again, it took pressure off of relatively lower earning people and moved the burden to those who can better afford it.

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But he can't pay for it.  Anyone can give out money if they don't have to account for it through revenues. And the GIS is still based on your income, with no asset test, so seniors still living in a house can mooch off the fed while seniors who downsize responsibly get nothing for their sacrifice.

Income testing is far more valuable than means testing when you're actually trying to keep people fed and housed.  Canada has no problem paying for its government programs.

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What changes?  More money he can't pay for?

The CPP is self funding.  It's a gradual increase in premiums and payments to reduce pressure on general revenues and keep seniors out of poverty.

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Killing more pipelines, Bye North Gateway pipeline.

Something I'm in favour of - Northern Gateway was DOA anyway.

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Most Canadians yes for some reason do enjoy the gov coercing them by force of gun & club to answer personal questions.  He also attempted to fleece our banking records.

That's paranoid nonsense.

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We lied, and then when called on it we lied as to why we lied.

Or, it fell flat.  I've never been convinced of the drastic need for change.

Offline JMT

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Re: 2019 Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2019, 03:46:18 pm »
So why give the vote to anyone else in the province if they are just redundant? That’s the attitude I am talking about the east writes off the west because of population  and the Vancouver writes off the rest of B.C. for the same reason and you can’t understand why people resent it.

...what?
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: 2019 Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2019, 04:29:30 pm »
That's paranoid nonsense.

What happens to you if you don't fill out the census?  You're threatened with fines and then jail time.  So no, it's not paranoid.

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Income testing is far more valuable than means testing when you're actually trying to keep people fed and housed.

If you want to keep people fed & housed & help keep the books in the black, we should be doing both.

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Canada has no problem paying for its government programs.

The country has been in the red virtually every year for a decade+ with no end in sight.

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Or, it fell flat.  I've never been convinced of the drastic need for change.

What does "fall flat" mean?  Trudeau was convinced enough of such a drastic change to make it an election promise.  Then he won, then they did the calculations and didn't think it was worth threatening their own power over.
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Offline JMT

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Re: 2019 Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2019, 04:34:01 pm »
What happens to you if you don't fill out the census?  You're threatened with fines and then jail time.  So no, it's not paranoid.

There are a lot of things that you are restricted to or from doing in a society - that's normal.

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If you want to keep people fed & housed & help keep the books in the black, we should be doing both.

That's an opinion, and isn't a requirement for actually managing a country's finances. Just ask the IMF - deficits and surpluses in dollar terms are totally meaningless.

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The country has been in the red virtually every year for a decade+ with no end in sight.

With zero fiscal impact or repercussions.

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What does "fall flat" mean?  Trudeau was convinced enough of such a drastic change to make it an election promise.  Then he won, then they did the calculations and didn't think it was worth threatening their own power over.

An all party committee was formed, and there was zero consensus in or out of parliament.  Leaving things be was seen as the safest option.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: 2019 Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2019, 04:51:40 pm »
There are a lot of things that you are restricted to or from doing in a society - that's normal.

But it isn't paranoid.

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That's an opinion, and isn't a requirement for actually managing a country's finances. Just ask the IMF - deficits and surpluses in dollar terms are totally meaningless.

I would disagree that deficits and surpluses in dollar terms are totally meaningless.

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With zero fiscal impact or repercussions.

Except for increased budgeting towards paying billions more in interest payments every year.

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An all party committee was formed, and there was zero consensus in or out of parliament.  Leaving things be was seen as the safest option.

Because they had no real plan when they made the election promise.  Even if I believed them for why they abandoned it, most would agree they shouldn't have made the kind of promise they did.  They should have said they'd look into it, or lay out a specific vision.  I don't think it was an important issue for most voters anyways.
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Offline JMT

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Re: 2019 Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2019, 05:16:58 pm »
I would disagree that deficits and surpluses in dollar terms are totally meaningless.

I'm sure you would - most economists would disagree with you on that though.

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Except for increased budgeting towards paying billions more in interest payments every year.

That hasn't happened.

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Because they had no real plan when they made the election promise.  Even if I believed them for why they abandoned it, most would agree they shouldn't have made the kind of promise they did.  They should have said they'd look into it, or lay out a specific vision.  I don't think it was an important issue for most voters anyways.

It certainly wasn't important to me, which is why I don't care either way.

Offline wilber

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Re: 2019 Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2019, 05:42:42 pm »
If they all voted Conservative from Matsqui to the Sunshine Coast (what you call "Vancouver"), would that be better for some reason?  I don't understand your latest resentment... 

To sum up:
  • People vote for different parties in different regions of BC
  • The Lower Mainland/Fraser Valley/Sunshine Coast voted Liberal
  • Wilber yells at clouds.

What would be better is ditching the never mind children, us adults know best attitude.
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: 2019 Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2019, 08:47:39 pm »

hmmm. So why aren't politicians proposing more ideas like that?  I suspect that these trade-offs are easier said than done.  "We could stop spending money on THIS and spend it on THAT instead!" might sound like a great idea for people who are in favor of THAT but people who depend on THIS will be dead set against it.  There's nothing you can do that isn't going to impact somebody.
 

There could be many reasons.  I offer these:

- The size of government is huge.
- People who get elected are often connected lawyers or high-connected business people with little practical experience in management.
- They tend to listen to their political advisors as well as senior bureaucrats.
- Senior bureaucrats can't imagine a world with one less stapler in it, never mind a restructuring.
- The risk in doing anything is huge.

But then - think of Guliani.  He did pretty much that when he reversed the crime trend in New York.  He could have parlayed it into a White House run if he were luckier.

The change is going to come when someone in their 30s now gets in and says f*** this. 

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: 2019 Canadian Federal Election
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2019, 11:08:54 pm »
I'm sure you would - most economists would disagree with you on that though.

Inflation is a myth? Governments can just print more money?  And never default?  If most economists believe in some bastardized version of "modern monetary theory" where deficits are irrelevant, as you say they are, then surely we should run 1 trillion dollar deficits & live like kings.
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