Author Topic: US Retail Apocalypse  (Read 349 times)

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Offline Michael Hardner

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US Retail Apocalypse
« on: November 15, 2017, 06:09:49 am »
https://newrepublic.com/article/145813/cause-consequences-retail-apocalypse

Ok - can someone explain to me WHO would be willing to lend (and subsequently lose) money to retail businesses undergoing this change ?  Is this simply somebody taking advantage of stupid lenders and investors ? 

If so, it's hard to feel sorry for them even if I do feel sorry for the workers.  Also, if this is accurate it seems to me that new businesses will rise into the breach ?  No ?

Thoughts please.

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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: US Retail Apocalypse
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2018, 07:19:56 am »
https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/30/news/companies/ross-stores-tj-maxx-burlington-off-price-discount-retail/index.html?iid=EL

JC Penney on its way down... but TJ Maxx thrives.  Did I mention I am sooo glad to not be working in retail any more ?  Seriously one of the dumbest areas I have ever worked in.  Government was dumb also but it was the setup, not the people.  And in government the people were nice at least...

Online wilber

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Re: US Retail Apocalypse
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2018, 01:07:08 pm »
I don't buy much online and when I do it is usually because I can't find it locally. Must be the old guy in me. I prefer to see what I am buying and support local business if I can.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: US Retail Apocalypse
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2018, 05:00:54 pm »
I found a Ralph Lauren coat I kind of liked at the Bay today. But it wasn't the colour I wanted. I shopped around some more but didn't find better and came home. Then I decided to maybe buy it anyway, if they had a lighter colour online. Unfortunately, their online shop had even less in the way of selection, just one colour: black. So I typed in the code for the coat (I'd taken a picture of the tag at the store) and found a guy in the US selling it for US$99 +$41 shipping and handling and duty through Ebay. And it was in the color I wanted. The price at the Bay was $350 btw. So no sale, Bay. Money goes to an online guy in the states.



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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: US Retail Apocalypse
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2018, 05:41:54 pm »
Stores open, stores close.  **** happens.  Last time I walked into a Sears was probably in the 1990's.  Toys R Us....well it's not the 80's or 90's anymore, the kids of the babyboomers are all grown up and not having kids, too busy masturbating in their mom's basement and taking FeeFee the cute pug out for a walk (it's not their dog it's their child, ok)....so the kids toy industry in general isn't what it was.  Babies R Us can't be winning if there's no babies.

Creative destruction I say.  Companies go out of business, people lose jobs.  New companies spring up, hire new workers.  C'est la vie.  Clearly people are buying more stuff than ever and US companies are making ridiculous amounts of money like never before so the overall economy is doing its thing.

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Offline cybercoma

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Re: US Retail Apocalypse
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2018, 07:02:26 am »
Speaking of new companies taking their place, is it just me or has Mastermind Toys sprung up out of nowhere?

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: US Retail Apocalypse
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2018, 08:47:18 am »
Weird!!! I just went there yesterday for the first time!  New store too.  Bought Sushi Go!
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Offline kimmy

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Re: US Retail Apocalypse
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2018, 09:03:47 am »
Toys R Us continues to survive in Canada, as it was spun off from its US parent some time ago. One of the main reasons the US version of Toys R Us died is that it was a target of the same "vulture capitalism" techniques that Bain Capital used to buy out Sealy Mattress, with pretty much the same effect.  If you'll recall, that is basically that a company is purchased... its new owners then pay themselves a "special dividend" to immediately pay back the money they used to buy the company. The company goes into debt obtaining the money to pay this special dividend. And their profits for the foreseeable future are all spent paying off this debt. In the case of Sealy, that led to cost-cutting measures intended to increase the profit margin from revenue (leading to the "no-flip" mattress, an "innovation" that contributed to the erosion of the brand's reputation.) Saddling their newly-purchased company with debt might not sound like a great business move if you're under the assumption that the long-term goal was to build upon Sealy.  But paying themselves back for their purchase on their very first day as owners was a great move if you consider that their main goal was just their own personal financial gain.  Sealy became a shadow of its former self, but was sold off to a competitor for a lot less money than Bain bought it for.  But Bain didn't lose money, that second sale was all profit. They'd already recouped their initial expenditure on the first day. Everything after that was all profit. They made lots of money on "management fees" and the eventual sale, even though their asset was a shadow of what it was when they first bought it.

Sears went a similar route, except that instead of "special dividends",  its current management group have sold off assets (like the land from closed stores, and the Craftsman tools line) to do stock buy-backs to puff up the share price. They also redirected money that used to be spent on capital improvements into stock buy-backs.  That's why your local Sears had rotting carpets, decomposing ceiling tiles, and a broken air-conditioner before it closed down. Why stock buy-backs? What was so great about those?  Well, the management group are all big shareholders, so obviously having a high stock price benefits them.

Brick and mortar retailers might not doing great, but I think the death of Toys R Us and the ongoing demise of Sears are examples of companies whose ruin is being accelerated by their own management more than by broader market trends.


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Online wilber

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Re: US Retail Apocalypse
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2018, 10:02:16 am »
Vulture Capitalists. They call **** "unlocking value". Buy a company in trouble for a song claiming to be its saviour, flog its assets and discard the carcass.
.
Cerberus did the same thing with Air Canada. Formed a holding company, ACE Aviation, sold off the regional carrier, Aeroplan (which they are now buying back) and the heavy maintenance devision. Distributed the proceeds to ACE share holders then flogged what was left of the airline which barely managed to survive and come back.

Cerberus tried to do the same thing with Chrysler but over reached itself. Fortunately, Sergio Marchionne (RIP) of FIAT had a vision, did a deal with the US government and brought the company back, paid off the government loans and made it profitable.
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: US Retail Apocalypse
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2018, 10:08:32 am »
Weird!!! I just went there yesterday for the first time!  New store too.  Bought Sushi Go!
Sushi Go! is actually a pretty great game!

Offline cybercoma

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Re: US Retail Apocalypse
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2018, 10:09:34 am »
Toys R Us continues to survive in Canada, as it was spun off from its US parent some time ago. One of the main reasons the US version of Toys R Us died is that it was a target of the same "vulture capitalism" techniques that Bain Capital used to buy out Sealy Mattress, with pretty much the same effect.  If you'll recall, that is basically that a company is purchased... its new owners then pay themselves a "special dividend" to immediately pay back the money they used to buy the company. The company goes into debt obtaining the money to pay this special dividend. And their profits for the foreseeable future are all spent paying off this debt. In the case of Sealy, that led to cost-cutting measures intended to increase the profit margin from revenue (leading to the "no-flip" mattress, an "innovation" that contributed to the erosion of the brand's reputation.) Saddling their newly-purchased company with debt might not sound like a great business move if you're under the assumption that the long-term goal was to build upon Sealy.  But paying themselves back for their purchase on their very first day as owners was a great move if you consider that their main goal was just their own personal financial gain.  Sealy became a shadow of its former self, but was sold off to a competitor for a lot less money than Bain bought it for.  But Bain didn't lose money, that second sale was all profit. They'd already recouped their initial expenditure on the first day. Everything after that was all profit. They made lots of money on "management fees" and the eventual sale, even though their asset was a shadow of what it was when they first bought it.

Sears went a similar route, except that instead of "special dividends",  its current management group have sold off assets (like the land from closed stores, and the Craftsman tools line) to do stock buy-backs to puff up the share price. They also redirected money that used to be spent on capital improvements into stock buy-backs.  That's why your local Sears had rotting carpets, decomposing ceiling tiles, and a broken air-conditioner before it closed down. Why stock buy-backs? What was so great about those?  Well, the management group are all big shareholders, so obviously having a high stock price benefits them.

Brick and mortar retailers might not doing great, but I think the death of Toys R Us and the ongoing demise of Sears are examples of companies whose ruin is being accelerated by their own management more than by broader market trends.


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You know who else is going this route? Tim Hortons.

Offline kimmy

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Re: US Retail Apocalypse
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2018, 10:50:10 am »
That's another great reason for me to not shop there!  I'd call it a boycott, but I haven't purchased anything from them for years.

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Offline cybercoma

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Re: US Retail Apocalypse
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2018, 12:57:21 pm »
It's probably been a good 15 years or more since I've stepped foot in a Tim Hortons. Someone brought me a coffee once. I was appreciative, but their product is just horrendous these days.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: US Retail Apocalypse
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2018, 01:28:39 pm »
Speaking of new companies taking their place, is it just me or has Mastermind Toys sprung up out of nowhere?

I've seen them around for a long time, but that's just me.  Stuff you can't buy at Walmart i guess.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: US Retail Apocalypse
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2018, 02:26:56 pm »
Money goes to an online guy in the states.

Hopefully you don't get a Ralph Laureen coat.