Author Topic: US Congress Thread...  (Read 850 times)

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Offline TimG

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Re: US Congress Thread...
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2018, 01:46:24 am »
Yes, all those committees that the Republicans used to harass Obama or protect Trump over the past 8 years will be under Democrat control now.
The difference is there is likely plenty of real corruption (e.g. Russian money laundering) which Trump is guilty of and the only question is whether it will be possible to find compelling evidence.
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Offline Omni

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Re: US Congress Thread...
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2018, 02:24:05 am »
Oh I bet Mueller has rather large file folder.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: US Congress Thread...
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2018, 11:33:49 am »
I think Kelly Mcparland puts it correctly in pointing out the Democratic leadership is ancient, and all the potential younger replacements range from 'left wing to very left wing'. No moderates to be seen.  And nothing that unites this fractured group of disparate people to deliver a coherent message about what they stand for.


They can do a lot to make Trump’s life miserable, and they almost certainly will put great effort into it. Whether it nets them anything beyond the pleasure of inflicting pain is another matter, the problem being that the Democratic party is not a united front dedicated to furthering shared aims and national goals. At best it is a loose coalition of factions, interests, individuals and regional powers, which co-operate to win elections or promote shared goals, but only as long as everyone’s agendas are being served, and no competing interest arises. National party bosses try to instil some order, but cats can be herded easier than congresspeople worried about a nomination challenge.

His opponents still don’t grasp what it is about the president that appeals to the 40% or more of Americans who appear willing to stand by him no matter what he says or does, who he insults or how many aides, assistants or cabinet heavies head for the exits. To a great degree it reflects the solidity and narrowness of his fans: whites, particularly males, and especially those lacking higher education. The Democrat “base” in contrast, is no base at all: blacks; hispanics; educated white women; urban elites on opposite coasts; a broad host of environmental, gender, educational, aspirational and income-related camps of disparate ardour, all jostling for position.


https://nationalpost.com/opinion/kelly-mcparland-divided-democrats-in-no-position-to-put-an-end-to-trumpism
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: US Congress Thread...
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2018, 11:44:19 am »
His opponents still don’t grasp what it is about the president that appeals to the 40% or more of Americans who appear willing to stand by him no matter what he says or does, who he insults or how many aides, assistants or cabinet heavies head for the exits.

There are way more Democrats in the US than there are Republicans, the Republicans just cheat through gerrymandering, voter suppression, and unfair systems like electoral college and 2 senate seats per state. 

I don't think Democrats should care what 'appeals to Trump supporters' about him.  If anything, Democrats now realise what a lost cause it is to try and reason with a group completely incapable of bipartisanship. 

**** them even MORE than ever before.

ETA - trying to understand the deplorables is what's gotten them to this point in the first place.  They need to take the gloves off and start punching back.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 11:47:00 am by BC_cheque »

Offline SirJohn

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Re: US Congress Thread...
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2018, 11:55:52 am »
There are way more Democrats in the US than there are Republicans, the Republicans just cheat through gerrymandering, voter suppression, and unfair systems like electoral college and 2 senate seats per state. 

I don't think Democrats should care what 'appeals to Trump supporters' about him.  If anything, Democrats now realise what a lost cause it is to try and reason with a group completely incapable of bipartisanship. 

**** them even MORE than ever before.

ETA - trying to understand the deplorables is what's gotten them to this point in the first place.  They need to take the gloves off and start punching back.

There are two parts to winning. The first is to offer up a coherent, attractive set of policy alternatives. The Democrats fail here.
The second part is to try to avoid energizing your opponents base. Your mentality fails here.

**** the 40% who support them? Yeah, there's a good idea. **** nearly half the country because they would rather vote for a braying ass like Trump than a collection of confused, screwed up, disorganized identity politics kooks.

As for 'punching back', you might also want to bear in mind that the 40% you want to say '**** them' to have almost all the guns, and includes most of the military and police.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 11:57:54 am by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline MH

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Re: US Congress Thread...
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2018, 12:14:09 pm »
**** the 40% who support them? Yeah, there's a good idea. **** nearly half the country because they would rather vote for a braying ass like Trump than a collection of confused, screwed up, disorganized identity politics kooks.
 

Can you apply your point in SJ's post on the other thread where he refuses to 'grovel' to natives, possibly meaning he refuses to acknowledge an oath of thanks for the native land...

I don't understand your principles... they seem to contradict...

Offline Omni

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Re: US Congress Thread...
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2018, 12:14:30 pm »
There are two parts to winning. The first is to offer up a coherent, attractive set of policy alternatives. The Democrats fail here.
The second part is to try to avoid energizing your opponents base. Your mentality fails here.

**** the 40% who support them? Yeah, there's a good idea. **** nearly half the country because they would rather vote for a braying ass like Trump than a collection of confused, screwed up, disorganized identity politics kooks.

As for 'punching back', you might also want to bear in mind that the 40% you want to say '**** them' to have almost all the guns, and includes most of the military and police.

Wow, throwing out the comment about who owns all the guns sounds quite similar to the type of fear mongering Trump would do. And if you think Trump has coherent, attractive policies then I see a mentality failure there.

Offline ?Impact

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Re: US Congress Thread...
« Reply #37 on: November 07, 2018, 12:42:00 pm »
There are way more Democrats in the US than there are Republicans, the Republicans just cheat through gerrymandering, voter suppression, and unfair systems like electoral college and 2 senate seats per state. 

Yes, the non-democratic system in the states is 8 times worse than it is here. I remember when my MP had a population of almost 9 times that of one in PEI. In the US, California has 68 times the population of Wyoming and yet they both have equal representation in the Senate. Both countries were created by a small set of provinces/colonies, and new ones came along and the system didn't evolve.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 12:55:06 pm by ?Impact »

Offline SirJohn

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Re: US Congress Thread...
« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2018, 01:51:03 pm »
Can you apply your point in SJ's post on the other thread where he refuses to 'grovel' to natives, possibly meaning he refuses to acknowledge an oath of thanks for the native land...

I don't understand your principles... they seem to contradict...

Are the natives 40% of the country?
Have I suggested punching them even harder, doing whatever I can to infuriate them even more?

Maybe the concept of equality is just beyond you. To you, there is a hierarchy of merit, and at the top are various identity groups, and at the bottom are guys like me. And we must continually grovel and beg the apology of all the rest for real or imagined present or past injustices. That's not going to happen. That attitude is what drives Trump voters. That attitude is what fuels the far right in Europe. Most of these people voting for Trump probably know he's an ****, but they figure better him than this sort of ****.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 01:55:55 pm by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: US Congress Thread...
« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2018, 01:52:59 pm »
Wow, throwing out the comment about who owns all the guns sounds quite similar to the type of fear mongering Trump would do. And if you think Trump has coherent, attractive policies then I see a mentality failure there.

She was the one who talked about punching them, and about "**** them even more than before"
I'm pointing out the inevitable outcome of that sort of mindset.

"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: US Congress Thread...
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2018, 01:54:57 pm »
Yes, the non-democratic system in the states is 8 times worse than it is here. I remember when my MP had a population of almost 9 times that of one in PEI. In the US, California has 68 times the population of Wyoming and yet they both have equal representation in the Senate. Both countries were created by a small set of provinces/colonies, and new ones came along and the system didn't evolve.

Wyoming also has one congressman while California has 53.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: US Congress Thread...
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2018, 04:43:24 pm »
There are way more Democrats in the US than there are Republicans, the Republicans just cheat through gerrymandering, voter suppression, and unfair systems like electoral college and 2 senate seats per state. 

Where's evidence for this?  Obviously yes voter suppression etc exists, but GOP vs Dems support looks pretty even to me.  There's just more Democrats on Twitter & in the media, so they're more vocal seemingly.  Jim Bob from Kansas doesn't have quite the same megaphone.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: US Congress Thread...
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2018, 04:51:38 pm »
Yes, the non-democratic system in the states is 8 times worse than it is here. I remember when my MP had a population of almost 9 times that of one in PEI. In the US, California has 68 times the population of Wyoming and yet they both have equal representation in the Senate.

The US Framers did that specifically on purpose so larger states wouldn't dominate & run tyrannical-like in the senate and leave little voice or power for smaller states like in the House.  It's all checks and balances.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline JMT

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Re: US Congress Thread...
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2018, 04:53:10 pm »
Wyoming also has one congressman while California has 53.

Which still leaves Wyoming unfairly over represented. 

Offline JMT

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Re: US Congress Thread...
« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2018, 04:53:56 pm »
Where's evidence for this?  Obviously yes voter suppression etc exists, but GOP vs Dems support looks pretty even to me.  There's just more Democrats on Twitter & in the media, so they're more vocal seemingly.  Jim Bob from Kansas doesn't have quite the same megaphone.

The democrats have to have something like +5% in the popular vote to win the HoR in any election.  That's insane.