Author Topic: Trump Brings Home 2000 Troops!  (Read 249 times)

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Offline the_squid

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Re: Trump Brings Home 2000 Troops!
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2020, 02:23:52 pm »
Not the wisest move, but how many died?

Simply compare the number of human beings Trump has ordered to their death with any other POTUS in US history.  This is why antiwar.com loves Trump.  Don't take my word for it.

“Not killing as many people” isn’t the criteria for the peace prize.    ::)

Offline eyeball

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Re: Trump Brings Home 2000 Troops!
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2020, 02:37:19 pm »
“Not killing as many people” isn’t the criteria for the peace prize.    ::)
I would have thought just not killing would be the most important criteria.  Obama's award of the peace prize is as incongruous as Rush Limbaugh's medal of freedom.

Offline Montgomery

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Re: Trump Brings Home 2000 Troops!
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2020, 02:51:04 pm »
I would have thought just not killing would be the most important criteria.  Obama's award of the peace prize is as incongruous as Rush Limbaugh's medal of freedom.

Obama's tricky moves to prevent the planned US war on Syria is not the reason for the peace prize, but it's worth mentioining here for those who are awake and conscious enough to understand. So here's how he did it.

The war against Syria was supposed to be another war to eliminate Assad's threat of chem/bio weapon use. The US was actively declaring that they were Assad's WMD's as had already proved successful on Iraq. (lies of course, as we now know) Obama called together a three party meeting between Putin, Assad, and himself, being the important players. An agreement was reached for a complete and total destroying of Assad's chem/bio arsenal and it went into action, and indeed succeeded. Thereby destroying any hope for the US to use the WMD claim for war on Syria!

It could be argued that Obama should have received another peace prize for that accomplishment. And also accomplishing a situation in which Russia could enter Syria and establish a pemanent presence, with no objections from the US/Nato!

For the final laugh, ask any American how that came about. Those that hate Obama can never admit that Obama accomplished peace in Syria of course. And those who support Obama could never admit that he hijacked his country's intentions of taking Syria. Syria is now safe and out of bounds for a US invastion. The best the US can do now is cause further unrest with their support of ISIS terrorists which only accomplishes more suffering of the Syrian people.

Say you heard it here first.
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Trump Brings Home 2000 Troops!
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2020, 03:01:09 pm »
“Not killing as many people” isn’t the criteria for the peace prize.    ::)

Really??  He's such an arse for brokering all sorts of peace deals in the middle east and starting no new wars while trying to stop the old ones by bringing troops home.
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Offline eyeball

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Re: Trump Brings Home 2000 Troops!
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2020, 03:02:00 pm »
Say you heard it here first.
It'll probably be the only place I hear it too.
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Offline Montgomery

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Re: Trump Brings Home 2000 Troops!
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2020, 03:19:41 pm »
Really??  He's such an arse for brokering all sorts of peace deals in the middle east and starting no new wars while trying to stop the old ones by bringing troops home.

Your support of Trump can be debated but this board isn't the place. At least you're coming out unashamedly as a Trump supporter now.

Trump's moves on behalf of the apartheid regime were a careless gamble that led the two sides further away from any resolution. It takes a pretty Conservative Canadian to voice support for that.

Put me down as seeing it as shameful support for US aggression with it's lone support of the apartheid regime's evil that's still passed off as pity for what happened to them over 75 years ago.
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: Trump Brings Home 2000 Troops!
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2020, 03:25:28 pm »
Really??  He's such an arse for brokering all sorts of peace deals in the middle east and starting no new wars while trying to stop the old ones by bringing troops home.

Imagine believing that a) Trump had a hand in any of those deals and b) that normalization between the apartheid state and Gulf dictatorships who were never even in conflict matters a whit.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Trump Brings Home 2000 Troops!
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2020, 08:42:32 pm »
Your support of Trump can be debated but this board isn't the place. At least you're coming out unashamedly as a Trump supporter now.

I'm not an "unashamed Trump supporter" lol.  I don't support the large majority of his domestic policies, which have been a disaster, including the total BS he's doing now to claim the election was stolen.  I do support much (not all) of his foreign policy though.

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Trump's moves on behalf of the apartheid regime were a careless gamble that led the two sides further away from any resolution. It takes a pretty Conservative Canadian to voice support for that.

I never said I supported that, you're putting words in my mouth.  For instance, I'm very against Trump's moving the US embassy to Jerusalem.  Jerusalem is to be a shared city in any 2-state solution.  That's not helpful for any peace deal there I totally agree.  But putting things into perspective, Trump hasn't killed anyone doing this.

In theory i'm ok with Trump being tough on Iran (though not so tough to start war), in theory if he wanted to renegotiate the nuke deal that's fine, but it hasn't happened and Iran seems closer to a nuke, so it looks like he screwed up on that one.

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Put me down as seeing it as shameful support for US aggression with it's lone support of the apartheid regime's evil that's still passed off as pity for what happened to them over 75 years ago.

If you think showing support for Israel is "US aggression", which every admin has always done shamelessly, well I don't know what to say to you.  I don't agree on his level of support, I think he's been too supportive because the Netanyahu gov is trash (I don't agree with his settlement building).  I'm much more worried about US body counts, and by that measure Trump has been better than any US POTUS I can remember.  If you remember long before he was elected, Trump was against the Iraq War too.  I've been a reader of antiwar.com for decades and I share some of their views on Trump.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Trump Brings Home 2000 Troops!
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2020, 09:01:00 pm »
Imagine believing that a) Trump had a hand in any of those deals and b) that normalization between the apartheid state and Gulf dictatorships who were never even in conflict matters a whit.

So you think those deals occurred without Trump's knowledge or input or approval? 

Trump has brokered deals to normalized relations between Israel and 3 Arab states, including Sudan which participated in the 1967 war.  They now recognize Israel's right to exist for the first time.  It's at least progress.  Some people are so blinded by their hatred of Trump they refuse to give any credit where credit's due.  Your emotions are irrelevant to the facts.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-54124996

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For decades, most Arab states have boycotted Israel, insisting they would only establish ties after the Palestinian dispute was settled.  But last month the United Arab Emirates (UAE) agreed to normalise its relationship with Israel.

There had been much speculation that Bahrain might follow suit.  Mr Trump, who presented his Middle East peace plan in January aimed at resolving the Israel-Palestinian conflict, helped broker both accords.

Bahrain is only the fourth Arab country in the Middle East - after the UAE, Egypt and Jordan - to recognise Israel since its founding in 1948.

Trump has also put a peace plan between Israel and Palestinians on the table.  It's a bad deal for the Palestinians and they rejected it, but as Trump knows you don't start negotiations by putting your best offer on the table at the outset:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_peace_plan
« Last Edit: November 18, 2020, 09:03:24 pm by Gorgeous Graham »
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Offline waldo

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Re: Trump Brings Home 2000 Troops!
« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2020, 12:21:26 am »
I don't support the large majority of his domestic policies...  I do support much (not all) of his foreign policy though.

how cute you are to be so infatuated with the nothingness that is Donald J. Trump! PrePres, the extent of Trump's political knowledge was to simply recognize who he needed to curry favour with at a dinner... or whose campaign he needed to contribute funds toward. Trump certainly hasn't embraced the job and required work of U.S. President... hasn't grown/learned with it - ya think! In his NY heydays, Trump chummed around with Democrats and fancied himself one. That he actually ended up running for and winning a Republican leadership campaign speaks to his overall political naivete, the intellectual failing within the Republican Party itself and, of course, the rise of and influence of global populism that Trump's support base seized upon fell into!

nothing rings louder than to see Trump speak without a teleprompter - the guys a complete moron who couldn't articulate any kind of policy position on anything! Trump is completely manipulated by others - as is often stated, Trump ends up aligning with whatever the last person he spoke with said.


So you think those deals occurred without Trump's knowledge or input or approval?

absofn'lutely! You've got to be trolling with your references to "his domestic/foreign policies"... surely! Trump "brokered"!!! Oh my!  ;D
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Trump Brings Home 2000 Troops!
« Reply #40 on: November 19, 2020, 12:57:58 am »
how cute you are to be so infatuated with the nothingness that is Donald J. Trump! PrePres, the extent of Trump's political knowledge was to simply recognize who he needed to curry favour with at a dinner... or whose campaign he needed to contribute funds toward. Trump certainly hasn't embraced the job and required work of U.S. President... hasn't grown/learned with it - ya think! In his NY heydays, Trump chummed around with Democrats and fancied himself one. That he actually ended up running for and winning a Republican leadership campaign speaks to his overall political naivete, the intellectual failing within the Republican Party itself and, of course, the rise of and influence of global populism that Trump's support base seized upon fell into!

This doesn't have anything to do with anything that I said, or this topic.


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absofn'lutely! You've got to be trolling with your references to "his domestic/foreign policies"... surely! Trump "brokered"!!! Oh my!  ;D

Accusing me of "trolling" and putting smiley faces isn't an argument and so will be ignored.  Whenever I bring up these points all people usually say "Nooo Trump bad man!".  Do you have any evidence to show what I said is wrong?  Evidence, not a sarcastic tweet or some meme.  In fact, I double-dog dare you to make any post on this forum without featuring a tweet, meme, or annoying smiley face.  ;D
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Trump Brings Home 2000 Troops!
« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2020, 09:55:15 am »
So you think those deals occurred without Trump's knowledge or input or approval? 

Frankly, yes. That fat dumbass couldn't find any of those countries on a map if it was labeled and you expect me to believe he played an active role in making them happen? It's laughable.

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Trump has brokered deals to normalized relations between Israel and 3 Arab states, including Sudan which participated in the 1967 war.  They now recognize Israel's right to exist for the first time.

More accurate to say the Trump administration got involved with ongoing talks between Israel and those other nations resulting in the entirely symbolic recognition of Israel by the Gulf dictatorships. It's meaningless theatre that does nothing for the cause of peace and everything for giving Israel cover for its continued crimes against the Palestinian people. It's as meaningful and legitimate as Trump putting up a plaque on his golf course to commemorate a Civil War battle that never took place.

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Trump has also put a peace plan between Israel and Palestinians on the table.  It's a bad deal for the Palestinians and they rejected it, but as Trump knows you don't start negotiations by putting your best offer on the table at the outset:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_peace_plan

President Deals also forgot the part where negotiations should actually involve talking to the other party involved and not presenting them with a fait accompli plan.
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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Trump Brings Home 2000 Troops!
« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2020, 10:42:26 am »
More accurate to say the Trump administration got involved with ongoing talks between Israel and those other nations resulting in the entirely symbolic recognition of Israel by the Gulf dictatorships.

Do you have any evidence for this claim?  Or do you simply hate Trump so much that you see everything and anything done by the Trump admin as bad and are totally incapable of acknowledging ANYTHING good he or his admin has done?

Imagine the nerve of someone like me thinking that sometimes or even most of the time Trump and his admin make bad/stupid policy and other times they may have good policy.  We live in a world where if you have the nerve to voice any support for anything Trump/his admin may do you're automatically admonished to be some kind of crazy white supremacist MAGA hat wearer.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: Trump Brings Home 2000 Troops!
« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2020, 10:54:46 am »
Do you have any evidence for this claim?  Or do you simply hate Trump so much that you see everything and anything done by the Trump admin as bad and are totally incapable of acknowledging ANYTHING good he or his admin has done?

It's a fact that relationships between Israel and the Gulf klepto states had been developing for years before the Trump admin took over. The Saudis have been making peace overtures since 2006 and the UAE and Israel have had diplomatic and economic exchanges going back to at least 2007. So the idea that these states were at each others throat until the big wet boy came along to force them to the bargaining table is farcical.

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Imagine the nerve of someone like me thinking that sometimes or even most of the time Trump and his admin make bad/stupid policy and other times they may have good policy. 

Imagine thinking a symbolic peace deal between a bunch of vile human rights abusers that fucks over the Palestinians and paves the way for future conflicts with Iran is good policy.

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We live in a world where if you have the nerve to voice any support for anything Trump/his admin may do you're automatically admonished to be some kind of crazy white supremacist MAGA hat wearer.

Weird I don't remember saying any of that stuff.
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Offline segnosaur

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Re: Trump Brings Home 2000 Troops!
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2020, 12:26:00 pm »
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/11/17/pentagon-announces-drawdown-of-us-troops-in-afghanistan

Very good news, regardless of the 2000 just being relocated.
No, it isn't.

Yes, it may sound like it "helps make the world peaceful" by withdrawing from places like Afghanistan. But the problem is, Afghanistan is still largely a basket case, and there is a very good chance that once the U.S. withdraws, groups like the Taliban might increase their efforts at taking over. (We've seen it before... withdrawing from parts of Syria increased conflicts between Turkey and the Kurds.)
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Suspicions of Trump being at least as good for US foreign policy as Biden the hawk, are becoming fact!
Errrr... not really.

Keep in mind that:
- Trump initially supported the Iraq invasion
- Under Trump, Drone strikes have greatly increased, and oversight has decreased.
- Trump's abandonment of elements of "soft power" (diplomacy, aid, etc.) means that in the long run, war becomes more likely

Why assume Biden is a "Hawk"? Under Obama, they weren't running around bombing everyone. And when they did use the military, it was often reactionary (such as in Libya, a military conflict that Trump also said he agreed with.) I see no reason why Biden would react any differently than Obama did.