Author Topic: The sad state of the (UN) United States  (Read 1552 times)

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Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #150 on: November 25, 2021, 02:48:09 pm »
So - until we educate the masses that perceptions on race need more than observational/knee-jerk assessments (rather than just getting them to accept that racism is "wrong") then we will not be able to have such discussions productively.  They will, instead, serve the short-term purpose of inflaming and garnering support from the in-group.

Well unfortunately we live in a society that is so PC that people are afraid of criticizing certain claims for fear of being labeled a racist, sexist, etc.  We live in a society filled with people who are cowards and sheep who just go along with things so they aren't mobbed on twitter or dismissed from their jobs by their PC employers who care more about PR and not being labeled as racist/sexist than they care about facts.  As that evil neo-Nazi Ben Shapiro likes to say, "facts don't care about your feelings", and he's 100% correct on that.  Some facts are just so inconvenient to some people's agendas.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.
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Offline MH

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #151 on: November 25, 2021, 02:57:15 pm »
1. Well unfortunately we live in a society that is so PC that people are afraid of criticizing certain claims for fear of being labeled a racist, sexist, etc. 

2.  As that evil neo-Nazi Ben Shapiro likes to say, "facts don't care about your feelings", and he's 100% correct on that.  Some facts are just so inconvenient to some people's agendas.
1. But they also think that they know the answers to everything, including complicated issues.  Take 'The Centrist'.  He knows nothing, rationalizes nothing, but calls you an idiot (and ARROGANT) for DARING TO STATE SOMETHING HE DOESN'T AGREE WITH, WITH HIS ZERO INFORMATION.

If you want to step on a podium and say people are afraid of being labelled, then do also point out those - like him - who don't deserve to be heard, who don't put any thought into formulating an opinion.

2. Yeah, well 'The Centrist' sure expressed some HURT FEELINGS against THE FACTS I POSTED.  There are no facts that racial inequality isn't socialized, and can't be corrected.  Sorry, Ben and Centrist - go punch your pillows now...

Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #152 on: November 25, 2021, 03:06:09 pm »
If you are talking about 'discriminating' by programs like affirmative action, then just stop seeing as that and see it as trying to provide a leg up to people who are disadvantaged... for some reason.  That way, you would agree it's not a permanent program either.

So you're in favour of racial discrimination in order to prevent "racial disparities".  Did you not just listen to anything I wrote?

If a refugee from Uganda comes to Canada and isn't well educated and doesn't have a college diploma, why should an employer be allowed to give them a job over a more qualified candidate simply because of skin colour?  Race has absolutely NOTHING to do with why the Ugandan is not as qualified for the job.  Being low-income in that case isn't in any way whatsoever the fault of someone from another race, and the primary reason is education not racism.  If the majority white population allows refugees into Canada because they want to be compassionate, does that mean they also have to give them their freaking jobs?  It's insane.  I'm fine with giving them education, language training, free healthcare, even income supports, and everything else they need to succeed, but i'm not going to support racially discriminatory policies.

Cynic isn't exactly wrong, you go along with virtually all of the SJW agenda.  Do you have any original thoughts of your own or do you just submit to whatever the mainstream progressive agenda tells you to support?  You're PC and afraid of offending anyone, and this is exactly the problem.  Being anti-science and pro-discrimination because "it feels good to help the poor" is total nonsense.  If you want to help the poor then support social programs, don't be racist against people and don't step on other people's basic human rights.  Two wrong don't make a right.

My friend in government, a male, tells me that every single person above him in his chain of authority, from his supervisor, manager, director...all the way up to the Assistant Deputy Minister and Cabinet Minister, they are all women.  That's not a coincidence.  It will be extremely difficult for him to move up in his department simply because he doesn't have the right parts between his legs.  I thought this is everything we were fighting to eliminate in our society and now the pendulum is swung hard in the opposite direction.  It's insane.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #153 on: November 25, 2021, 03:12:56 pm »
1. But they also think that they know the answers to everything, including complicated issues.  Take 'The Centrist'.  He knows nothing, rationalizes nothing, but calls you an idiot (and ARROGANT) for DARING TO STATE SOMETHING HE DOESN'T AGREE WITH, WITH HIS ZERO INFORMATION.

If you want to step on a podium and say people are afraid of being labelled, then do also point out those - like him - who don't deserve to be heard, who don't put any thought into formulating an opinion.

2. Yeah, well 'The Centrist' sure expressed some HURT FEELINGS against THE FACTS I POSTED.  There are no facts that racial inequality isn't socialized, and can't be corrected.  Sorry, Ben and Centrist - go punch your pillows now...


1. Evidence and logic are the only thing that matters.  This is regardless of someone's placement on the ideological spectrum.  I think everyone deserves to be heard, but not everyone deserves to be listened to, because some ideas are better than others based on evidence and logic.

2.  "Corrected" how?  Through policies that are discriminatory?  The ends don't always justify the means.  Anyone who needs society's support deserves it, unless it means trampling on someone else's fundamental human rights.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #154 on: November 25, 2021, 04:09:57 pm »
Well unfortunately we live in a society that is so PC that people are afraid of criticizing certain claims for fear of being labeled a racist, sexist, etc.  We live in a society filled with people who are cowards and sheep who just go along with things so they aren't mobbed on twitter or dismissed from their jobs by their PC employers who care more about PR and not being labeled as racist/sexist than they care about facts.  As that evil neo-Nazi Ben Shapiro likes to say, "facts don't care about your feelings", and he's 100% correct on that.  Some facts are just so inconvenient to some people's agendas.

Ironically you're not presenting any facts here. You feel society is too PC, you feel people self-censor out of fear, you feel employers fire people who cross certain lines. And above all you feel this is (a) new (b) widespread and (c) a serious threat to, I dunno, free speech and men's rights I guess?

But society has always had written and unwritten rules about what people can and cannot say; people have always self-censored out of fear and employers have always fired people for arbitrary reasons. Where's the actual evidence that shifting social norms around speech are a greater threat now than in the past when you would be jailed for believing in Communism or fired for talking about starting a union?

Offline MH

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #155 on: November 25, 2021, 04:12:05 pm »

1. If a refugee from Uganda comes to Canada and isn't well educated and doesn't have a college diploma, why should an employer be allowed to give them a job over a more qualified candidate simply because of skin colour?  Race has absolutely NOTHING to do with why the Ugandan is not as qualified for the job.   Being low-income in that case isn't in any way whatsoever the fault of someone from another race, and the primary reason is education not racism.  If the majority white population allows refugees into Canada because they want to be compassionate, does that mean they also have to give them their freaking jobs? 

2. Cynic isn't exactly wrong, you go along with virtually all of the SJW agenda.  Do you have any original thoughts of your own or do you just submit to whatever the mainstream progressive agenda tells you to support?  You're PC and afraid of offending anyone, and this is exactly the problem. 

3.  My friend in government, a male, tells me that every single person above him in his chain of authority, from his supervisor, manager, director...all the way up to the Assistant Deputy Minister and Cabinet Minister, they are all women.  That's not a coincidence.  It will be extremely difficult for him to move up in his department simply because he doesn't have the right parts between his legs. 

1. Your post is insane.  We didn't get to the point where we could discuss specific programs and here you are jumping ahead and giving a Ugandan my job.  Let's forget it. You're incapable of discussing this without getting upset.

2. I posted my original thoughts, and took a long time to do so.  Instead of reading my posts, which you don't do, you instead repost your ideas and accuse me of being afraid and doctrinaire.  Your loss.

3. Your friend is probably bad at his job, or maybe he does a bad job of reading this - as is your problem.

Anyway, I'm doing great in my career as a white middle-aged male.  I have a female boss, POC and younger than me... we get along fine.  I don't wet my pants and scream when she walks in the room.  She deserves to be there. 

But I guess I should ask you how I really feel about this situation - I'm afraid right ?  Right ?

Offline MH

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #156 on: November 25, 2021, 04:15:40 pm »

1. Evidence and logic are the only thing that matters. 

1. You're right.  The Centrist posts that I'm arrogant and you post that I'm afraid...  No evidence, and no logic.

Have a good night.
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Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #157 on: November 25, 2021, 04:56:41 pm »
1. Your post is insane.  We didn't get to the point where we could discuss specific programs and here you are jumping ahead and giving a Ugandan my job.  Let's forget it. You're incapable of discussing this without getting upset.

2. I posted my original thoughts, and took a long time to do so.  Instead of reading my posts, which you don't do, you instead repost your ideas and accuse me of being afraid and doctrinaire.  Your loss.

3. Your friend is probably bad at his job, or maybe he does a bad job of reading this - as is your problem.

Anyway, I'm doing great in my career as a white middle-aged male.  I have a female boss, POC and younger than me... we get along fine.  I don't wet my pants and scream when she walks in the room.  She deserves to be there. 

1. I get upset about issues that are upsetting, like racial and gender discrimination.

2.  Sorry I shouldn't have said "thoughts", I should have said "positions".

3.  I've had POC and female bosses too.  No issue with them because I don't judge people by their race or gender.  My issue is when people are hired over other people for the colour of their skin or their gender, which I thought was the whole problem to begin with.  Solving a problem by committing the same sin against others is hypocrisy.

Whether you are happy in your job is separate from the issue of whether people in general have the right to move up within an organization without skin colour or gender being a barrier.

Here's an IT boss taking a question from a feminist about the gender gap at Oculus Rift IT.  Who is for equality here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzmbW4ueGdg
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Offline MH

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #158 on: November 26, 2021, 12:37:49 pm »
Canadian Civil Service stats:

Quote
4. Women
55.3% of employees are women (55.2% in 2010)
49.4% of executives are women (43.7% in 2010)

So, there is parity.  This means 1/8 employees will have 3 female bosses in a row above them, following probability odds.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #159 on: November 26, 2021, 12:55:50 pm »
So you're in favour of racial discrimination in order to prevent "racial disparities".  Did you not just listen to anything I wrote?

If a refugee from Uganda comes to Canada and isn't well educated and doesn't have a college diploma, why should an employer be allowed to give them a job over a more qualified candidate simply because of skin colour?
  Race has absolutely NOTHING to do with why the Ugandan is not as qualified for the job.  Being low-income in that case isn't in any way whatsoever the fault of someone from another race, and the primary reason is education not racism.  If the majority white population allows refugees into Canada because they want to be compassionate, does that mean they also have to give them their freaking jobs?  It's insane.  I'm fine with giving them education, language training, free healthcare, even income supports, and everything else they need to succeed, but i'm not going to support racially discriminatory policies.

Would it kill you to provide even the tiniest shred of evidence that completely unqualified people are being hired based on the colour of their skin or whatever? Because it sounds like a bunch of made up bullshit to me.


Quote
My friend in government, a male, tells me that every single person above him in his chain of authority, from his supervisor, manager, director...all the way up to the Assistant Deputy Minister and Cabinet Minister, they are all women.  That's not a coincidence.  It will be extremely difficult for him to move up in his department simply because he doesn't have the right parts between his legs.  I thought this is everything we were fighting to eliminate in our society and now the pendulum is swung hard in the opposite direction.  It's insane.

It's extremely sexist to assume those women are where they are because of employment equity hiring and not because they are qualified. Maybe your friend isn't as good at his job as they are and that's why he's stuck.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2021, 01:27:21 pm by Black Dog »

Offline Nipples Von Graham

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #160 on: November 26, 2021, 03:56:37 pm »
Canadian Civil Service stats:

So, there is parity.  This means 1/8 employees will have 3 female bosses in a row above them, following probability odds.

Those stats are from 2010, well before the Trudeau/woke era.
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Offline The Cynic

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #162 on: November 26, 2021, 04:10:13 pm »
1. You're right.  The Centrist posts that I'm arrogant and you post that I'm afraid...  No evidence, and no logic.

Have a good night.

I don't know about afraid but just about every post you make reeks of arrogance. And here you are flouncing off in a huff again.

Offline The Cynic

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #163 on: November 26, 2021, 04:16:55 pm »
1. But they also think that they know the answers to everything, including complicated issues.  Take 'The Centrist'.  He knows nothing, rationalizes nothing, but calls you an idiot (and ARROGANT) for DARING TO STATE SOMETHING HE DOESN'T AGREE WITH, WITH HIS ZERO INFORMATION.

You're looking in a mirror. I'd like to discuss things calmly if there was anyone here capable of such a discussion. But what there seems to be here are a few nasty extremists from the far left and you - a tower of condescension willing to be polite only for a limited time, until it's clear you're not convincing someone. Then you are full of indignation and contempt and the pretense of any sort of interest in what others think goes out the window. You're locked in your little multicultural bubble in downtown Toronto and imagine that's the whole world and everyone should act and think just like you.

The masses aren't going to be educated by you or people like you, you pompous petty-bourgeois fool. They're going to come for you and your out-of-touch elitist world with pitchforks and torches instead and pull everything down around your ears. And you'll be left wondering "But, but I was so nice and caring and understanding!"

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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #164 on: November 26, 2021, 04:18:08 pm »
No - from 2019.

https://www.canada.ca/en/treasury-board-secretariat/services/innovation/human-resources-statistics/demographic-snapshot-federal-public-service-2019.html

Ah but you see the number of women executives went up a whopping 5%, clearly you're seeing a misandrist purge of the higher echelons of government.