Author Topic: The sad state of the (UN) United States  (Read 24183 times)

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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #60 on: November 20, 2021, 02:16:54 pm »
Regardless of what you and other lefties think about American law it's pretty clear in allowing for people like him to take out guns to defend both themselves and others from violence. He was legally standing around that car dealership to protect it from rioters.

"Take out guns" ... he was 17 and walking around with a rifle looking for trouble, dropped off by his mom from another town.  He was hunting.

What I *think* about American law is it's being reframed to enable vigilante justice, in the short term, and civil war in the long term.
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #61 on: November 20, 2021, 02:17:35 pm »
Ah yes what we really need is a war of all against all where the only people in the right are whoever is left alive when the smoke clears. Sounds great dude.

Pretty sure eyeball was being cynical...  (Edited to add) or accelerationist...
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #62 on: November 20, 2021, 03:54:29 pm »
"Take out guns" ... he was 17 and walking around with a rifle looking for trouble, dropped off by his mom from another town.  He was hunting.

It's always telling that they focus on the two seconds before he fired the first shot and not the circumstances leading up to that event. Also the focus on the narrow question of the law and ignorance (feigned or genuine) of the larger political and cultural issues around the radicalization of the American right.

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What I *think* about American law is it's being reframed to enable vigilante justice, in the short term, and civil war in the long term.

Vigilante justice and the right to self defense will continue to be the sole domain of a certain category of citizen, just as been the case throughout U.S. history.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 03:56:51 pm by Black Dog »

Offline eyeball

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #63 on: November 20, 2021, 04:48:00 pm »
Ah yes what we really need is a war of all against all where the only people in the right are whoever is left alive when the smoke clears. Sounds great dude.
Sorry, forgot the sarc/off.

And seriously, what's not needed but what we're getting anyway are painfully obvious.

So I wonder how this failed super-power will divvy up its nukes? Presumably there are countries that started
contemplating this last Jan 7th or so.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #64 on: November 20, 2021, 04:58:10 pm »
It's always telling that they focus on the two seconds before he fired the first shot and not the circumstances leading up to that event. Also the focus on the narrow question of the law and ignorance (feigned or genuine) of the larger political and cultural issues around the radicalization of the American right.

Vigilante justice and the right to self defense will continue to be the sole domain of a certain category of citizen, just as been the case throughout U.S. history.

I can only guess it's the NRA pushing this vision, with Congress and the Republicans getting paid off to enact it.

I really don't understand the political landscape beyond that, ie. how individuals discuss these things in person and decide it's what they want to see happen.

Offline eyeball

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #65 on: November 20, 2021, 05:02:16 pm »
Vigilante justice and the right to self defense will continue to be the sole domain of a certain category of citizen, just as been the case throughout U.S. history.
Go tell it to black national milita groups like the Not **** Around Coalition.

sarc/off btw.

Offline The Cynic

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #66 on: November 20, 2021, 06:12:12 pm »
So why didn't he keep running?

Because he got knocked down.

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None of this is relevant to my point. It's amazing that the neo-Nazis and other right-wing goons celebrating this verdict understand its implications and you continue to play dumb.

Ah, so you know exactly what neo-Nazis think and you know they're right?

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And an indifferent prosecution and a hilariously biased judge.

And charges which should not have been laid. There was an ex-Homocide cop on CNN who talked about this. Said he took weeks and months to get all his facts in order before laying charges in cases much less complicated than this but the charges were laid against this guy really quickly due to political pressure.

Offline The Cynic

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #67 on: November 20, 2021, 06:13:57 pm »
"Take out guns" ... he was 17 and walking around with a rifle looking for trouble, dropped off by his mom from another town.  He was hunting.

What I *think* about American law is it's being reframed to enable vigilante justice, in the short term, and civil war in the long term.

He was standing around guarding a car dealership. There's nothing new here. Google the story of the Koreans who defended their stores from rioters during the Rodney King riots. Vigilantes? This is a country that has allowed bounty hunters since its inception.
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Offline The Cynic

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #68 on: November 20, 2021, 06:18:54 pm »

My mistake, it wasn't the Proud Boys, it was Patriot Prayer, a different group of far-right thugs who had gone into Portland to instigate violent confrontations with protesters.

I love how you say that so indignantly. Yes, they do. But all they do is go somewhere to pray and that brings out raging, screaming, violent far-left activists. You can blame Patriot Prayer all you want but they're not making these **** lose their minds and go and attack them. No, no, that's on the crazy people.

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The guy who got shot was carrying a baton and pistol and going around spraying people with bear spray. And according to the logic of American legal system, it doesn't matter if the Reinoehl went out of his way to confront Danielson, if he felt threatened during the course of the confrontation, he was entirely justified in acting in self-defense.

And Reinohel was ALSO armed, which somehow is just fine with you. So it's okay to go armed to a 'demonstration' and to seek a confrontation with a guy and then shoot them because you feel threatened. As long as your politics align with the same far left bullshit as the batshit crazy black dog.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #69 on: November 20, 2021, 06:19:44 pm »
1. He was standing around guarding a car dealership. There's nothing new here.

2. Google the story of the Koreans who defended their stores from rioters during the Rodney King riots. Vigilantes? This is a country that has allowed bounty hunters since its inception.
1. 17 year old hears about BLM protests in another state.  Gets his mom to take him there so he can "guard" a car dealership that he has no connection to.  Your assertion that there's nothing "new here" is a borderline troll post.

2. Did the Koreans get dropped off by their mom from Oregon or maybe Korea and not own the stores they were defending and were underaged. 

The bountyhunters point is a hail mary pass.

-----

I'm barely aware of your presence here but you don't seem to have situational awareness of the practicality of your argument.
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Offline The Cynic

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #70 on: November 20, 2021, 06:19:58 pm »

Offline The Cynic

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #71 on: November 20, 2021, 06:24:07 pm »
1. 17 year old hears about BLM protests in another state.  Gets his mom to take him there so he can "guard" a car dealership that he has no connection to.  Your assertion that there's nothing "new here" is a borderline troll post.

The 17 year old hears about violent riots, you mean? I love how all you people on the Left continue to refer to violent riots as 'protests'. Do you realize what a meme and a joke that has become?

Yes, America has become more divided, and he was joining up with some kind of online group that did such things. Still entirely legal. Not that legalities seem to concern you nearly as much as your sanctimonious indignation.

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The bountyhunters point is a hail mary pass.

They're not vigilantes? Do you even know what the word means? Have you ever even been to the US? Met an American? Know ANYTHING about American culture and attitudes? **** you urban people in Canada are so goddam ignorant and supercilious about everything.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #72 on: November 20, 2021, 06:28:33 pm »
The 17 year old hears about violent riots, you mean?

Yes, ok.  That actually makes the same amount of sense as hearing about BLM protests.

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I love how all you people on the Left continue to refer to violent riots as 'protests'. Do you realize what a meme and a joke that has become?

Well they are announced as demonstrations and I don't think violence is a required component of the protests but again it's immaterial.

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Yes, America has become more divided, and he was joining up with some kind of online group that did such things. Still entirely legal. Not that legalities seem to concern you nearly as much as your sanctimonious indignation.

Sorry - so are we moving on from your assertion that there's nothing new here ?  Online groups of citizens that organize to attend BLM events with weapons isn't new ? 

You see - you have to concede a point if I counter it and you don't have a response to my criticism.  It's just intellectual honesty. 

I don't think I said it was illegal so you are trying to argue something different. 

I'm not indignant, and whether or not you see me as sanctimonious means nothing to the argument.

Before we continue, let's get you to acknowledge that your assertion that there is nothing new here is wrong, based on your own post here.

Do you accept that ?

Offline The Cynic

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #73 on: November 20, 2021, 06:51:54 pm »
Yes, ok.  That actually makes the same amount of sense as hearing about BLM protests.

You mean BLM riots, arsons and lootings, right? No, you can't even bring yourself to think it, much less say it.

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Sorry - so are we moving on from your assertion that there's nothing new here ?  Online groups of citizens that organize to attend BLM events with weapons isn't new ? 

Well, online is new. That's the only new part. Vigilantism has a very long and well-respected history in the US. They're not like **** Canada where a guy who defends his property gets arrested because cringing city people in their high towers make all the rules and can't imagine why anyone would ever need to defend themselves.

Offline The Cynic

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Re: The sad state of the (UN) United States
« Reply #74 on: November 20, 2021, 07:00:04 pm »
You know, I'm close enough to the centre to despise Trump and the religious kooks and crooks and hypocrites and nuts who surround him. And yet if it came to voting for that group or you lot I think I'd probably be strongly, strongly tempted to vote Trump's ticket. Because you're mostly a bunch of arrogant, hateful scum too, but your hate and contempt is directed more towards anyone who isn't a far-left university-educated urban **** like you. So yeah, Trump's people are scum, but so are you.

Now take that into an American context and imagine how your sort is inspiring centrists across the US to decide they want nothing to do with any party which embraces people like you and your ridiculous, dumbass identitarian gender pronouns and critical race theories and the rest of your woke 'equity' garbage. I suspect the Republicans are going to sweep the election next year and we'll have another trump party guy in power in Washington two years later. And it won't be because people are responding to their message, but to yours. It's YOUR message which turns people to Trump's side. It's people like you American moderates despise. And Canadian moderates too, if you want the truth. I expect separatist sentiment in Alberta to grow over the next couple of years as Trudeau turns the screws on the oil and gas industry, and in two years they just might have a Trump type in office who would welcome a new state...
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