Author Topic: The Joe Biden Thread  (Read 41879 times)

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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #705 on: January 25, 2021, 12:35:12 pm »
Actually it isn't. You aren't prepared to consider any definition  but your own.

Give me an alternative definition then, tell me more about how the well-off suburban whites who form the core of Trump's support are really just struggling with the old coal mine shutting down or some bullcrap.

But you can't any more than you are capable of understanding the difference between "a significant portion of Trump's supporters are motivated by racial anxiety" and "all Trump supporters are racists" (something no one is claiming anyway).

Online Michael Hardner

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #706 on: January 25, 2021, 12:48:06 pm »
Give me an alternative definition then, tell me more about how the well-off suburban whites who form the core of Trump's support are really just struggling with the old coal mine shutting down or some bullcrap.

Ok but is there any doubt that coal country came out for Trump ?

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #707 on: January 25, 2021, 01:24:52 pm »
Ok but is there any doubt that coal country came out for Trump ?

The first time around, yes.  The 2nd time, not so much.

However, Trump did lose the popular vote both times.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #708 on: January 25, 2021, 02:21:06 pm »
Ok but is there any doubt that coal country came out for Trump ?

Sure. I'm just trying to slice the pie to find out how significant this alleged bloc of voters that wilber keeps talking about-economically disadvantaged people who voted for Trump because of populist economic messaging but could be swayed to vote blue (unless you call them racist)- actually is. As a percentage of Trump's supporters, I expect that's a tiny group. As a percentage of the total electorate, I'd bet they are statistically insignificant.
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Offline eyeball

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #709 on: January 25, 2021, 07:45:10 pm »
Sure. I'm just trying to slice the pie to find out how significant this alleged bloc of voters that wilber keeps talking about-economically disadvantaged people who voted for Trump...

...As a percentage of the total electorate, I'd bet they are statistically insignificant.
You're talking about people who were mostly displaced by economic globalization, automation and other freebie-market changes. Anyone else recall conservatives advising people to work harder for less and calling anyone who complained too much a lazy slacker and a commie? Of course nowadays conservatives and their politicians can't gush enough about how great good paying union jobs are and how commies, foreigners and immigrants are stealing them away.

Useful idiots usually are insignificant.  I don't doubt that this alleged bloc of voters exists but I'm afraid I just don't give a **** about them. Scrape 'em off.  The sooner they're gone the sooner the world will be a better place.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #710 on: January 25, 2021, 08:33:54 pm »
You're talking about people who were mostly displaced by economic globalization, automation and other freebie-market changes. Anyone else recall conservatives advising people to work harder for less and calling anyone who complained too much a lazy slacker and a commie? Of course nowadays conservatives and their politicians can't gush enough about how great good paying union jobs are and how commies, foreigners and immigrants are stealing them away.

Useful idiots usually are insignificant.  I don't doubt that this alleged bloc of voters exists but I'm afraid I just don't give a **** about them. Scrape 'em off.  The sooner they're gone the sooner the world will be a better place.

I just love the idea that there are large numbers of people out there who would be like “boy I’d love some affordable health care but someone on the tv said Trump voters are racist so I’m gonna show them by dying!”

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #711 on: February 02, 2021, 02:09:30 pm »
Will Democrats be smart enough to get out of their own way??  Or are they going to be spineless idiots?

They can pass their COVID legislation without any Republican support and they can vote to do away with the undemocratic filibuster with a simple majority which paves the way for further legislative action. 

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2021/02/01/real-reason-gop-dont-want-bidens-plan-they-fear-it-will-work?amp
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #712 on: February 02, 2021, 06:52:42 pm »
Will Democrats be smart enough to get out of their own way??  Or are they going to be spineless idiots?

They can pass their COVID legislation without any Republican support and they can vote to do away with the undemocratic filibuster with a simple majority which paves the way for further legislative action. 

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2021/02/01/real-reason-gop-dont-want-bidens-plan-they-fear-it-will-work?amp

Most of the GOP need to go f*** off and rot in a hole because they suck.  The party is almost useless.  It's hard to blame the party though when ~30% of the voting public are straight up stupid bigoted goons who always vote these idiots into office, and then the other 20% of the country that aren't so bad but vote them in anyways.

So ya f*** the GOP, since they behave like jerks in Congress just plow everything through without regard for what they think.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley
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Offline eyeball

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #713 on: February 02, 2021, 07:05:48 pm »
Will Democrats be smart enough to get out of their own way??  Or are they going to be spineless idiots?
1. if not and 2. they are; hindsight will make it apparent this was probably the only shot there'll be at turning things around and by that I mean preventing America from slipping into a full blown political and socioeconomic interregnum and likely dragging much of the world with it.  The world is already neck-deep in a dark dystopia that's stranger in reality than any fictional dystopias I recall reading.  Between that and all the other eight-balls arrayed in front of us...

Time will tell, maybe a short time.

Offline segnosaur

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #714 on: February 02, 2021, 11:23:02 pm »
They can pass their COVID legislation without any Republican support and they can vote to do away with the undemocratic filibuster with a simple majority which paves the way for further legislative action. 
The problem with getting rid of the filibuster...

Changing the rules of the senate requires a majority vote. While the democrats do control the senate, at least two senators (Joe Manchin, who is a centrist democrat, and Kyrsten Sinema) have stated that they do not support changing the rules to end the filibuster.  Without them, (and assuming none of the republicans side with the Democrats on this), they wouldn't have enough votes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/25/joe-manchin-filibuster-462364

Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #715 on: February 03, 2021, 09:23:43 am »
The problem with getting rid of the filibuster...

Changing the rules of the senate requires a majority vote. While the democrats do control the senate, at least two senators (Joe Manchin, who is a centrist democrat, and Kyrsten Sinema) have stated that they do not support changing the rules to end the filibuster.  Without them, (and assuming none of the republicans side with the Democrats on this), they wouldn't have enough votes.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/25/joe-manchin-filibuster-462364

Easy way around that: you bribe them with pork projects for their states.

Offline segnosaur

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #716 on: February 03, 2021, 10:13:16 am »
Quote
The problem with getting rid of the filibuster...

Changing the rules of the senate requires a majority vote. While the democrats do control the senate, at least two senators (Joe Manchin, who is a centrist democrat, and Kyrsten Sinema) have stated that they do not support changing the rules to end the filibuster.
Easy way around that: you bribe them with pork projects for their states.
Not sure if that would work right now. The Biden administration is attempting to engage in massive spending programs (in large part due to Covid relief, although basic infrastructure spending is also part of that.) Any 'pork projects' will probably be overwhelmed by all the other spending that will be done in their state.

Personally I'd love to see them change the rules to allow filibusters, but only in the old-school "Must keep actually talking" sense. (The current rule is that the opposition party just has to say "we filibuster", like some sort of magic incantation.)

Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #717 on: February 03, 2021, 12:05:24 pm »
Easy way around that: you bribe them with pork projects for their states.

Not sure if that would work right now. The Biden administration is attempting to engage in massive spending programs (in large part due to Covid relief, although basic infrastructure spending is also part of that.) Any 'pork projects' will probably be overwhelmed by all the other spending that will be done in their state.


Personally I'd love to see them change the rules to allow filibusters, but only in the old-school "Must keep actually talking" sense. (The current rule is that the opposition party just has to say "we filibuster", like some sort of magic incantation.)

So then you just say "see all these nice things we have planned for your state? Vote to nuke the filibuster and you can keep them. If not, we'll make sure they get nothing and that everyone knows it's your fault." Stop coddling these DINOs.

Offline Boges

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #718 on: February 03, 2021, 12:28:50 pm »
Will Democrats be smart enough to get out of their own way??  Or are they going to be spineless idiots?

They can pass their COVID legislation without any Republican support and they can vote to do away with the undemocratic filibuster with a simple majority which paves the way for further legislative action. 

https://www.commondreams.org/views/2021/02/01/real-reason-gop-dont-want-bidens-plan-they-fear-it-will-work?amp

They would have to convince some Dems. (Manchin and Sinema) to even vote to abolish the Fillibuster.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #719 on: February 03, 2021, 12:55:39 pm »
They would have to convince some Dems. (Manchin and Sinema) to even vote to abolish the Fillibuster.

Exactly...   that’s what i meant when I asked if they could actually get out of their own way and grow a spine.
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