Author Topic: The Joe Biden Thread  (Read 41805 times)

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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #630 on: January 19, 2021, 04:09:05 pm »
I guess we have already discussed that. Canada doesn't equal representation by population either. If the US made Senate representation rep by pop, there would be no need for a senate because that has already been done in the house.

You’re now just being purposely obtuse. 

PEI will never have equal political power to Ontario like Wyoming does with California in the USofA senate. 

For you to say “it’s the same principle” in Canada is just ignorant.   
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Offline wilber

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #631 on: January 19, 2021, 05:51:45 pm »
You’re now just being purposely obtuse. 

PEI will never have equal political power to Ontario like Wyoming does with California in the USofA senate. 

For you to say “it’s the same principle” in Canada is just ignorant.

I never said it was the same, I said it was the same principal. Wyoming has equal power in the Senate, it doesn't have equal power when it comes to actually making laws. You have to remember the Constitution was written with the original 13 states in mind. No American had even seen Wyoming at that time.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #632 on: January 19, 2021, 09:06:22 pm »
That's what a bill of rights is for. Any system of government that prevents governing is garbage.

It's not meant to prevent governing, it's meant to ensure that any legislation has the approval of the people at large and the states.  If the Senate and House are controlled by different parties it means that they need to compromise in order to pass legislation.  The United States is a union of states, it's a federation, it isn't simply a big group of 300 million people, and states rights is a value the people who created the constitution wanted.

If you don't have those same values that's fine.  Canada also is a federal system, and we also have a Senate based on regional/provincial representation, but our Senate is much less democratic so by convention it defers to the will of the House because it's elected.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #633 on: January 19, 2021, 09:09:00 pm »
That's because we have a multi party democracy.

No it's because of our voting system, FPTP.

Quote
States are artificial constructs, unlike people.

So are countries and cities and laws.  I don't understand your point.  I think you're saying that the rights of states and provinces don't matter?  Or at least they shouldn't have an input in determining laws?
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #634 on: January 19, 2021, 09:30:20 pm »
why would a state of 300,000 citizens be as important as a state as 35,000,000 citizens?? 

It's not.  California has far more seats in the House and far more electoral college votes to determine POTUS.  Wyoming only has 1 House seat, California has 53.  I think the rep by pop formulas aren't proportional though, they should be adjusted.
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Offline JMT

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #635 on: January 20, 2021, 08:24:46 am »
It's not meant to prevent governing, it's meant to ensure that any legislation has the approval of the people at large and the states.

And I go back to states being artificial constructs. 40,000,000 people in California are quite real.

Offline JMT

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #636 on: January 20, 2021, 08:27:24 am »
Or at least they shouldn't have an input in determining laws?

Why would they? They're collections of people. Those people already have input.

Offline Boges

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #637 on: January 20, 2021, 08:46:10 am »
It's not.  California has far more seats in the House and far more electoral college votes to determine POTUS.  Wyoming only has 1 House seat, California has 53.  I think the rep by pop formulas aren't proportional though, they should be adjusted.

Because the Senate is territorial representation, States with less than a million people have the same number of Senators as huge states like Califorina, New York etc etc.

Apparently when States were being added in the 18th Century they tried to keep them even by added Free and Slave states in pairs just to keep things equal. Obviously the Republicans don't consider that anymore.

Added DC as a State would tip the balance. As would splitting California up. Then again, if they do that, what would stop Texas and Florida splitting itself up. How about 2 Wyomings?

It's a stupid system.

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Offline wilber

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #638 on: January 20, 2021, 09:00:21 am »
And I go back to states being artificial constructs. 40,000,000 people in California are quite real.

So are provinces, Ontario has 94 times more people than PEI.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2021, 09:02:45 am by wilber »
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Offline wilber

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #639 on: January 20, 2021, 09:07:04 am »
When the constitution was written the differences in population between states were much smaller than they are now. Their amendment process makes any fundamental changes impossible, as does ours.
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Offline JMT

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #640 on: January 20, 2021, 11:27:12 am »
So are provinces, Ontario has 94 times more people than PEI.

I'm not in favour of the current exceptions. Every province/territory should have a floor of 1, and that's it.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #641 on: January 20, 2021, 11:39:38 am »
Remember:

When you hear "Joe Biden" you must ALWAYS IMAGINE IT IS ONE WORD, ie. "Jobiden"

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #642 on: January 20, 2021, 12:34:33 pm »
And I go back to states being artificial constructs. 40,000,000 people in California are quite real.

California has 53 seats in the House.  The next closet state is Texas at 36, then Florida and NY at 27.  Wyoming has only 1 seat.

California has 55 electoral college votes for POTUS (who has veto power).  Texas is the next closest at 38.  Wyoming has 3.

If you want to argue that those aren't proportion to population i'd agree and should be fixed.  But Californians aren't ignored, they're by far the most powerful and represented state in the union and it isn't even close.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #643 on: January 20, 2021, 12:35:22 pm »
Remember:

When you hear "Joe Biden" you must ALWAYS IMAGINE IT IS ONE WORD, ie. "Jobiden"

Please stop saying this because whenever I hear "Joe Biden" I imagine one word:  Jobiden.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline JMT

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #644 on: January 20, 2021, 01:39:01 pm »
California has 53 seats in the House.  The next closet state is Texas at 36, then Florida and NY at 27.  Wyoming has only 1 seat.

California has 55 electoral college votes for POTUS (who has veto power).  Texas is the next closest at 38.  Wyoming has 3.

If you want to argue that those aren't proportion to population i'd agree and should be fixed.  But Californians aren't ignored, they're by far the most powerful and represented state in the union and it isn't even close.

All of that is irrelevant. Legislation has to pass both houses.
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