Author Topic: The Joe Biden Thread  (Read 41919 times)

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Offline segnosaur

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #600 on: January 08, 2021, 09:14:31 pm »
Re: Purpose of the U.S. senate...
It is supposed to provide balance between the tyranny of a majority and the country as a whole.
First of all, I think such protections are better done by the court system and the constitution rather than the senate.

Secondly, even if there was justification for a senate to "protect the minority "of the electorate at one point, it could be argued that currently has taken the process too far. In 1790, the biggest state (by population) was roughly 12 times the size of the smallest. In 2010, the biggest state is now over 60 times the smallest. The increase in the disparity of each state's population means that what might have been a reasonable system centuries ago is now seen as giving TOO MUCH political power to the smaller states.

The way the current system works, it seems to be replacing "tyranny of the majority" with "tyranny of the minority", as smaller states seem to be able to dictate to larger states (through things like judicial appointments) how they should function.
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #601 on: January 08, 2021, 09:18:38 pm »

States are artificial constructs, unlike people.

Exactly...   why would a state of 300,000 citizens be as important as a state as 35,000,000 citizens??  A state is just some borders.  Change the borders, and suddenly your state has millions of more people.  It’s meaningless.

Makes zero sense.
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Offline segnosaur

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #602 on: January 08, 2021, 09:19:54 pm »
At the cost of possibly disenfranchising the states?  The USA is a union of states, it's a federation.  It's not simply 300 million and majority rules.
It would still be a "union of states", even if they revamped their political system to either reduce the influence of the senate, or adjusted the weighting of the senate.

States would still have significant authority in their own spheres of influence, and voters in those states would not necessarily be ignored. (They would just be less able to dictate the terms by which the remainder of the country functions.)
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Offline wilber

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #603 on: January 08, 2021, 11:47:56 pm »
Exactly...   why would a state of 300,000 citizens be as important as a state as 35,000,000 citizens??  A state is just some borders.  Change the borders, and suddenly your state has millions of more people.  It’s meaningless.

Makes zero sense.

If you just do it by population the country would be run by both coasts plus Texas. It's rep by pop in the house and legislation can only be made by the house.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #604 on: January 09, 2021, 12:02:50 am »
If you just do it by population the country would be run by both coasts plus Texas. It's rep by pop in the house and legislation can only be made by the house.

Where the people are = where the representation should come from.   What did I say in my post that you disagree with?

Why should Wyoming population 300,000 have as much political representation in the senate as California population 35 million?
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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #605 on: January 09, 2021, 06:34:26 am »
Where the people are = where the representation should come from.   What did I say in my post that you disagree with?

Why should Wyoming population 300,000 have as much political representation in the senate as California population 35 million?

This makes sense, but there is an idea that people on the geographical margins, where the population is lower, should have slightly more influence otherwise they will be utterly neglected.  So, Nunavut gets overrepresented and so on.  There's still going to be more attention paid to Ontario but there you go.

This natural tension can and will create a breaking point, as it seems to have in the US. 

In Canada, we actually have a more tangible and visible separate factor from provinces too. 

Offline eyeball

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #606 on: January 09, 2021, 10:46:58 am »
The moment congress gets back to business, any pretense of bipartisanship on their part will have vanished, and Biden will have to deal with obstructionist republicans.

Democrats need to play hardball. They won't get any sort of co-operation from the republican side.

Hopefully Biden recognizes that, and his comments about the republicans who "reached out to him" were just as empty as the rhetoric that was coming from the likes of Moscow Mitch.
He should probably stop reaching out if that's the case. Biden's main focus should be on the midterm election and admitting Puerta Rico to the union asap. Republicans will be racing to do everything they can at the state level to rig the next vote so Democrats should rig the next electorate.

guest18

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #607 on: January 09, 2021, 10:50:08 am »
Enfranchising Puerto Rico is not rigging anything.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #608 on: January 09, 2021, 11:07:29 am »
Complete nonsense.  Slavery wasn’t even part of the constitution, it was actually in violation of it.  You’re a clown. 🤡

Article 1, Section 9, Clause 1 specifically prohibited Congress from banning the importation of slaves:

The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

Article 4, Section 2, Clause 3 was known as the fugitive slave clause:

No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.

And of course, the 3/5ths compromise implicitly endorsed slavery by counting slaves as part of the population while not affording them any rights or representation.

In conclusion: suck my balls, you dumb choad.
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #609 on: January 09, 2021, 11:11:15 am »
If you just do it by population the country would be run by both coasts plus Texas. It's rep by pop in the house and legislation can only be made by the house.

Yeah why should the places with the most people get to call the shots, we should let a cow pasture in Montana decide things.

There's 10 million Trump voters in California and New York whose votes don't matter under the current system, you'd think the GOP would like to give them a voice.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #610 on: January 09, 2021, 12:48:45 pm »
Enfranchising Puerto Rico is not rigging anything.

Taxation without representation and that...

Offline segnosaur

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #611 on: January 09, 2021, 02:35:23 pm »
Yeah why should the places with the most people get to call the shots, we should let a cow pasture in Montana decide things.
But cows are people. After all, why would Devon Nunes be trying to sue one?
Quote
There's 10 million Trump voters in California and New York whose votes don't matter under the current system, you'd think the GOP would like to give them a voice.
Good point.

Many people get fixated on the 'urban' and 'rural' states, but even in 'Urban' California, there are significant agricultural areas where Republicans get support. And 'rural' states like Montana do have cities. And voters in those areas may have different priorities than what their senators represent.

Offline wilber

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #612 on: January 09, 2021, 02:44:55 pm »
Yeah why should the places with the most people get to call the shots, we should let a cow pasture in Montana decide things.

There's 10 million Trump voters in California and New York whose votes don't matter under the current system, you'd think the GOP would like to give them a voice.

We do the same thing in Canada. Atlantic provinces have representation way out of proportion to their populations.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline wilber

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #613 on: January 09, 2021, 02:50:27 pm »
Taxation without representation and that...

One of the reasons not to become a state is territories don't pay federal income tax on income earned within the territory.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: The Joe Biden Thread
« Reply #614 on: January 09, 2021, 04:46:33 pm »
We do the same thing in Canada. Atlantic provinces have representation way out of proportion to their populations.


Not to that extreme. 
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