Author Topic: The Donald Trump Thread  (Read 149856 times)

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Offline JMT

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #870 on: September 30, 2017, 08:18:41 pm »
There are always other factors.  It doesn't make it any less of a racial issue.  It doesn't make the dismissal of it any less of a racial issue, either.
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Offline Hal 9000

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #871 on: September 30, 2017, 08:23:12 pm »
There are always other factors.  It doesn't make it any less of a racial issue.  It doesn't make the dismissal of it any less of a racial issue, either.

3 questions, that's all i'm asking.  Should be simple for a smart guy like you!

How do you explain the discrepancy of male:female police shooting victims?
How do you explain the discrepancy of below poverty:above poverty police shooting victims?
How do you explain the discrepancy of inner city:suburban police shooting victims?

Offline JMT

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #872 on: September 30, 2017, 08:31:09 pm »
I'll say it again - dismissing it as not a racial issue doesn't make it any less of a racial issue.

Offline Hal 9000

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #873 on: September 30, 2017, 08:34:49 pm »
I'll say it again - dismissing it as not a racial issue doesn't make it any less of a racial issue.

Ok, maybe you're not as smart as I thought, I'll simplify; why do more men get killed from police than women?  If you want it to be about race, then answer this; why do more black men get killed from police than black women?

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #874 on: September 30, 2017, 09:06:50 pm »
Of course it's a racial issue.  These things don't happen to white people.  They aren't things we have to worry about.

They don't happen to white people? Are you trying to be ironic or are you putting trolling posts in the wrong topic?
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline JMT

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #875 on: September 30, 2017, 09:09:53 pm »
They don't happen to white people? Are you trying to be ironic or are you putting trolling posts in the wrong topic?

Of course they happen to some white people.  Just not many, or often.

There are a lot of racist people in the world even today.  Some of them happen to be police officers.  Sometimes, it's not such an accident that they're police officers.

Offline Hal 9000

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #876 on: September 30, 2017, 09:19:21 pm »
Of course they happen to some white people.  Just not many, or often.

There are a lot of racist people in the world even today.  Some of them happen to be police officers.  Sometimes, it's not such an accident that they're police officers.

Sorry, didn't mean to embarrass you, I really thought you had something (you know, facts..or at least an hypothesis) other than the same tired cliche.

Anyway, that's an open question to anyone here, we'll see what theories are out there.

Offline kimmy

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #877 on: October 01, 2017, 01:54:14 pm »
Wrong again!  That's exactly what they are.  That's what fans are in every sport.  It's especially true in terms of football, NFL and College.  (...)  They bond over the common enemy - that being the other team (and their fans).  Fans for the most part want the players to hate each other too - until at least the end of the game, then everybody can rejoin "life".  That's the way it is; and if that changes, it ruins the NFL system.  When the players try to force this change, they're messing with they system.

Yes, the feeling of common cause with other fans of your sports team is part of the excitement of the whole experience. I've written about this before... I believe that we're hard-wired to form "tribes" around "causes", and that in our modern world where we don't have real tribes anymore, we form fake tribes-- around things like sports teams, or religions, or political and social causes, or even conspiracy theories.

But it's certainly not the case that Falcons fans all feel the same about this issue, and it's also probably not the case that this issue is viewed the same way in Atlanta as it is seen in Baltimore or in Seattle.

Players shouldn't divide fans into race,

Why would this issue divide fans by race?  Is there some race out there that's in favor of police brutality? I'm not aware of such a race.

they shouldn't preach they're disgust with the police or the current president. 

I don't think anybody said anything about the President until the President inserted himself quite loudly into this debate by calling players "sons of ****" and telling NFL owners that they should fire players who don't stand during the anthem.

As for being disgusted with police... should NFL players refrain from addressing that when they're on the playing field? Or should they refrain from addressing it at any time, 24/7/365?


And this notion that players shouldn't use their position to express personal views... does that apply to any personal views, or does it only apply to personal views that you don't agree with?  I ask because, once again, many of the people saying the players should just shut up and play football thought it was great when Tim Tebow was using his platform to promote his faith.

"It's great that Tim Tebow is using this opportunity to start a conversation about Jesus!" 
"It's terrible that Colin Kaepernick is using the NFL as a platform for his own personal views."

And I'll grant you that some of the people who thought Tim Tebow was being ridiculous are probably saying the opposite about the players protesting during the anthem, and they're hypocrites as well.

And, I again have to ask: how come all these people who are saying "keep politics out of football!" didn't have anything to say when the US Armed Forces were paying the league millions of dollars to turn games into recruitment advertising?

Now, one could say "they're doing this for unity", but is it?  Is it unity when players try to turn fans against police? 

I'm not sure who's saying "they're doing this for unity".  I think everybody understands that there is some controversy here... if there wasn't, they wouldn't need to do this in the first place.

And the notion that they're "trying to turn fans against police" is a complete misrepresentation of the message here.

Is it unity to claim that NOT supporting the players is an act of racism?  Is it unity to protest the anthem/flag that so many fans believe strongly about, that they have suffered for or had family die for?  I know the cynic in you thinks it's a joke or manipulation, and being Canadian, I can see why. 

To be clear: I think the manipulator here is the President.  The guy who fanned what had been a relatively low-key issue into a national controversy by calling the players "sons of ****" during his angry rant. People who got all fired up about this because Trump turned it into a big deal are the ones being manipulated.

However, to dismiss this as a bunch of brainwashed rubes is wrong, there is much more going on here that speaks to the social side of Americans - sports gives them unity already, It's Monday to Friday that needs changing - not Sunday!

If people gave a **** about this Monday-to-Friday, this wouldn't be an issue on Sunday. People want the players to shut up about it so that they can ignore the issue seven days a week instead of just six.

 -k
Paris - London - New York - Kim City

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #878 on: October 01, 2017, 02:01:57 pm »
"They are shooting black people, but don't show somebody kneeling during the national anthem..."

No wonder they have to protest.

Offline Hal 9000

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #879 on: October 01, 2017, 02:12:02 pm »
"They are shooting black people, but don't show somebody kneeling during the national anthem..."

No wonder they have to protest.

No, the police are shooting men.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #880 on: October 01, 2017, 02:14:04 pm »
Of course they happen to some white people.  Just not many, or often.

In fact, they shoot White people a lot more often than Black people. If you read the cite I provided you would know that.

Quote
There are a lot of racist people in the world even today.  Some of them happen to be police officers.  Sometimes, it's not such an accident that they're police officers.

Pretty irrelevant when you have thus far completely failed to show racism involved in the shootings.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline JMT

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #881 on: October 01, 2017, 02:16:05 pm »
In fact, they shoot White people a lot more often than Black people. If you read the cite I provided you would know that.

Pretty irrelevant when you have thus far completely failed to show racism involved in the shootings.

Of course, we know that police shoot blacks in disproportionate numbers.  Don't let that stop your denial.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 02:17:43 pm by JMT »

Offline Hal 9000

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #882 on: October 01, 2017, 02:19:03 pm »
Yes, the feeling of common cause with other fans of your sports team is part of the excitement of the whole experience. I've written about this before... I believe that we're hard-wired to form "tribes" around "causes", and that in our modern world where we don't have real tribes anymore, we form fake tribes-- around things like sports teams, or religions, or political and social causes, or even conspiracy theories.

But it's certainly not the case that Falcons fans all feel the same about this issue, and it's also probably not the case that this issue is viewed the same way in Atlanta as it is seen in Baltimore or in Seattle.

Why would this issue divide fans by race?  Is there some race out there that's in favor of police brutality? I'm not aware of such a race.

I don't think anybody said anything about the President until the President inserted himself quite loudly into this debate by calling players "sons of ****" and telling NFL owners that they should fire players who don't stand during the anthem.

As for being disgusted with police... should NFL players refrain from addressing that when they're on the playing field? Or should they refrain from addressing it at any time, 24/7/365?


And this notion that players shouldn't use their position to express personal views... does that apply to any personal views, or does it only apply to personal views that you don't agree with?  I ask because, once again, many of the people saying the players should just shut up and play football thought it was great when Tim Tebow was using his platform to promote his faith.

"It's great that Tim Tebow is using this opportunity to start a conversation about Jesus!" 
"It's terrible that Colin Kaepernick is using the NFL as a platform for his own personal views."

And I'll grant you that some of the people who thought Tim Tebow was being ridiculous are probably saying the opposite about the players protesting during the anthem, and they're hypocrites as well.

And, I again have to ask: how come all these people who are saying "keep politics out of football!" didn't have anything to say when the US Armed Forces were paying the league millions of dollars to turn games into recruitment advertising?

I'm not sure who's saying "they're doing this for unity".  I think everybody understands that there is some controversy here... if there wasn't, they wouldn't need to do this in the first place.

And the notion that they're "trying to turn fans against police" is a complete misrepresentation of the message here.

To be clear: I think the manipulator here is the President.  The guy who fanned what had been a relatively low-key issue into a national controversy by calling the players "sons of ****" during his angry rant. People who got all fired up about this because Trump turned it into a big deal are the ones being manipulated.

If people gave a **** about this Monday-to-Friday, this wouldn't be an issue on Sunday. People want the players to shut up about it so that they can ignore the issue seven days a week instead of just six.

 -k

I know you're arguing me here, but i'm just trying to help you understand what the American fans are saying - you don't believe it, but the evidence proves the point.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #883 on: October 01, 2017, 02:20:28 pm »
"They are shooting black people, but don't show somebody kneeling during the national anthem..."

No wonder they have to protest.

To be more specific, the police are shooting black criminals, mostly who resist arrest. Meanwhile, twenty seven people were shot in Chicago this weekend, several killed, almost all of them Black, almost all by Blacks. Some of them were criminals, and some weren't. But nobody seems to have much care about that. It was almost an improvement over last weekend, when 36 mostly Black people were shot by mostly Black people. Blacks commit violent crimes at 7-10 times the statistical rate as Whtes. White police killed 258 Blacks last year, most of them armed, while 6,000 Blacks were murdered by other Blacks.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7441/7-statistics-you-need-know-about-black-black-crime-aaron-bandler
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Offline Hal 9000

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #884 on: October 01, 2017, 02:20:45 pm »
Of course, we know that police shoot blacks in disproportionate numbers.  Don't let that stop your denial.

They also shoot men in disproportionate numbers - the real question, one that you avoid is why?