Author Topic: The Donald Trump Thread  (Read 149909 times)

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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6945 on: January 14, 2021, 12:47:54 pm »
Can't get enough of seeing the people who've spent the last four years saying "f*ck your feelings you soy snowflake!" pivot to "hey guys c'mon can we dial back the rhetoric a little bit please?" when they're actually being called to account for their support of Trumpism. Like this smarmy little prick.
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Offline Omni

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6946 on: January 14, 2021, 01:02:05 pm »
I just heard that the moving trucks are in position at the WH. I wonder where exactly they will move trumps stuff too. Mara Lago? I bet Mr. Impeachment times two is a little moody today, especially not having a twitter account to rant and rave on. And it looks like an additional lawsuit will be forthcoming from Rudy since donny is pissed at him and refusing to pay the legal bills. Well at least they now have 20,000 Natianal Guard members in place in case donny tries to incite another riot in his remaining days. Quite the legacy donny!!!

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6947 on: January 15, 2021, 01:15:53 am »
Anyone who thinks the Republican Party is turning on Trump isn’t paying attention....    Only 10/207 Republicans voted to impeach.

I know it's still a long-shot, but a few considerations:

1) The house also had 121 members who were against certifying the results (more than 50%).  Only 6 senators did, showing less hyper-partisanship.
2)  House candidates don't rely as much as big donors as senators do and with corporate donations are stifled, more senators are willing to follow the money.
3)  They won't even begin the trial until the 19th and even then it'll be a busy week with all the cabinet confirmations.  Developments in the investigation of January 6th could take place, making it harder to stand by Trump.

Overall, it'll be hard to get 17 senators to vote against Trump (or stay home, bringing the total # votes needed down), but it's definitely a step up from impeachment 2019.  There's a sliver of chance vs. zero in 2019.

 
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6948 on: January 15, 2021, 01:27:56 am »
I think it's the opposite.  Bush admin were establishment Republicans that spilled over from Bush Sr/Reagan/Ford-Nixon years  Trump wasn't a party guy so may be seen as more of an aberration.
Iraq War led to 500k+ deaths. Trump is responsible for some of US's covid deaths but not all or even most.
I'm sure he did it with Muslims.

But anyways, i've already argued Trump is a worse POTUS than Dubya.  Both are moron a-holes.

I hate the fact that Trump has normalized Bush because he doesn't deserve it.  He got so many people killed, it's unconscionable.

Trump's handling of COVID and starting an insurrection is just as sociopathic, even if the death count wasn't as high.  Maybe it was just his luck... or W's bad luck.

At the end of the day, I don't think Bush had any idea Iraq would become such a clusterf*ck and he feels a level of remorse... but I don't think Trump is capable of any level of empathy or self-introspection so as far as human beings go, yeah I agree Trump is worse.

Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6949 on: January 15, 2021, 01:32:15 am »
At the end of the day, I don't think Bush had any idea Iraq would become such a clusterf*ck and he feels a level of remorse... but I don't think Trump is capable of any level of empathy or self-introspection so as far as human beings go, yeah I agree Trump is worse.

Never heard of Bush having an ounce of remorse for that. 

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6950 on: January 15, 2021, 01:55:26 am »
Never heard of Bush having an ounce of remorse for that.

He actually did, he said it was the one regret of his presidency... though he blamed the intelligence and said he still thinks it was the right decision.

But words aside, I think the fact that he has laid low since his presidency show his self-reflection and the fact that he knows he failed.   

I could be wrong and I can't believe for the life in me I'm defending GW Bush, but I do think he grossly misjudged the aftermath and body count, he was more of an agent than the decision-maker and that even though he won't openly incriminate himself as a war-criminal by admitting guilt, he has shown a level of remorse.

The whole Bush family is more decent than the Trumps. 
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Offline segnosaur

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6951 on: January 15, 2021, 09:58:07 am »
I just heard that the moving trucks are in position at the WH. I wonder where exactly they will move trumps stuff too. Mara Lago?
I think the more interesting question is... just how much stuff will Trump and his cronies steal when they leave the white house.

From: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/trump-white-house-begins-packing-up-211724935.html
One day after President Trump was impeached for the second time and with less than a week to go before President-elect Joe Biden’s inauguration, the Trump White House began cleaning out its desks on Thursday....White House staffers were spotted removing a bust of President Abraham Lincoln from the West Wing.

It is possible that items being removed are personal effects. Still, they may have to do so me careful counting when Biden takes over.
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And it looks like an additional lawsuit will be forthcoming from Rudy since donny is pissed at him and refusing to pay the legal bills.
Oh no! Now how is Guiliani going to afford to pay for high quality hair dye?

Of course if it does go to court and Guilliani represents himself, Trump might actually win the case (given how poor of a lawyer Rudy seems to be these days).

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Offline segnosaur

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6952 on: January 15, 2021, 11:04:31 am »
Re: Damage to international relations...
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Bush gave countries the feeling that "I don't like what America is doing but we can eventually get back to normal". Trump gave countries the feeling that "We can never trust America again".
I think it's the opposite.  Bush admin were establishment Republicans that spilled over from Bush Sr/Reagan/Ford-Nixon years  Trump wasn't a party guy so may be seen as more of an aberration.
Lets take a look at some facts, shall we?

While some may claim that Trump was an 'Aberration', he still had ~40% support nationally, and ~80-90% support within the republican party up until the last election. And republican congress-critters continued to support him (remember, only 1 GOP senator voted to impeach Trump, after he tired to bribe/blackmail a foreign government into overturning the election). And this was after 3 years of Trump calling neo-nazis "fine people". Of Trump making literally thousands of false statements in public. Of Trump attacking foreign allies.

If I am a foreign leader, I'm not going to look at Trump as an 'aberration'... I am going to start thinking of him as the new norm for the Republicans.

Republicans went from Bush (a president who was wildly unpopular when he left office, but who didn't overturn trade deals, didn't berate NATO, etc.) to Trump, a man who was quite submissive to Russia, instituted protectionist measures, and regularly attacked allies.
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Yup, its a given... Bush shouldn't have gone into Iraq. But whatever the death toll was, it will probably be exceeded by the number of deaths Trump could have prevented had he handled covid better.
Iraq War led to 500k+ deaths. Trump is responsible for some of US's covid deaths but not all or even most.
First of all, the 500k deaths in Iraq is probably an over-estimation. The web site Iraq Body Count (hardly a pro-bush source) puts the number closer to 200,000. (Yes, that is still a substantial number, but nowhere near as high).

Secondly, while I agree that not ALL U.S. covid deaths can be attributed to Trump, I think the majority can.

The best comparison for the U.S. system is Canada... We share a geographic isolation from Eurasia, we both have 'westernized' health care systems (admittedly with different costs/delivery mechanisms, but the treatment options are similar), and we have similar population demographics. However, if you compare fatalities, the U.S. has ~1200 deaths per million. Canada's death rate is around ~470 per million. In other words, we only have 40% of the fatalities that the U.S. does. There are 386,000 Covid deaths in the U.S. If they handled, covid as well as we did, that number would be closer to 150-200,000. So, I would chalk up the number of Covid deaths attributed to trump to be ~200k. (And that's only the current deaths. You can add thousands to that total over the next few weeks, as people infected at the end of Trump's tenure start to fall ill, even if they don't actually die until after Biden becomes president.)

So, Trump's Covid death toll is roughly equivalent to Bush's Iraq toll, if not greater.

See: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

Lastly, and most importantly... EVEN if you think the Iraq war was completely unforgivable. Even if you have this image of Bush sitting in the oval office twirling a long handle-bar moustache like some 1800s villain with a plan to kill Iraqis for fun. As I pointed out before, at least Bush did some good stuff.

I have pointed that out multiple times before, but you seem to ignore it. Hmmm... I wonder why?

From: https://www.history.com/news/what-was-a-george-w-bushs-greatest-achievement
Much of the legacy of President George W. Bush is wrapped around the war on terror and military action in Iraq and Afghanistan, but what many consider his greatest achievement is a public health effort steeped in humanitarianism that won accolades across the political spectrum: Bush has probably done more than any other president to combat AIDS, particularly in Africa.... That initiative became known as the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, or PEPFAR....A Stanford University analysis of PEPFAR’s first three years calculated 1.1 million lives saved with a 28 percent reduction in HIV/AIDS.

So there you go... even if you think the Iraq war was completely and totally wrong, more people are alive today thanks to Bush's actions.. (And, it should be noted that Trump has acted to cut back on those medical programs. So... add more to Trump's death toll.)

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But then, Bush never locked hundreds of children in cages after separating them from their families.
I'm sure he did it with Muslims.
Really? Where?

Show me where Bush was systematically having Muslim children locked in cages.

Oh, and if you're counting those, can we also count Muslim deaths caused by Trump's increased use of Drone strikes in the middle east? Or his actions that caused dozens/hundreds of Kurds to be killed by mismanaging troops?
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But anyways, i've already argued Trump is a worse POTUS than Dubya.  Both are moron a-holes.
But your earlier statement was: I always thought Dubya was a worse POTUS than Trump but i think Trump just passed Dubya on the list.

The point that I was making was that Trump should have passed the Shrub on your list of bad presidents YEARS ago. Even without his attempts at overturning valid election results. Even without his support of terrorism.

Offline eyeball

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6953 on: January 15, 2021, 12:36:04 pm »
The point that I was making was that Trump should have passed the Shrub on your list of bad presidents YEARS ago. Even without his attempts at overturning valid election results. Even without his support of terrorism.
The reason why Trump is referred to as an effect as opposed to a cause remains and Bush's contribution is clear as day.  The real reason of course are Americans. America is a democracy and it's people are ultimately responsible for the leaders and governments they follow and support. Trump can thank Bush for convincing millions of Americans that using ginned-up fake news - like the cartoons they used in Iraq's case for example - is an acceptable way to garner support and incite your followers. Feeding candy to a baby is just as easy taking it away.

Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6954 on: January 15, 2021, 02:13:32 pm »
The reason why Trump is referred to as an effect as opposed to a cause remains and Bush's contribution is clear as day.  The real reason of course are Americans. America is a democracy and it's people are ultimately responsible for the leaders and governments they follow and support. Trump can thank Bush for convincing millions of Americans that using ginned-up fake news - like the cartoons they used in Iraq's case for example - is an acceptable way to garner support and incite your followers. Feeding candy to a baby is just as easy taking it away.

My take on this is the Obama Presidency is the direct cause of Trump. First by leading the GOP to embrace insane conspiracy theories that have only gotten crazier, but also for Obama's own failure to hold anyone to account from the Bush admin and the financial collapse which sent a clear signal that anyone in powerful positions can get away with pretty much anything they want, which basically gave a green light for someone to come along and use the office to do crimes for personal enrichment.
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Offline eyeball

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6955 on: January 15, 2021, 03:30:39 pm »
So now Trump wants a military send-off the morning of Inauguration Day.

Hmmm, a bunch of troops celebrating Trump's governance of America in the same place as a bunch of troops protecting America from his governance. That'll probably keep a few of his fans on the edge of their seats in expectation but it'll probably be more like that scene in Braveheart where Irish and Scottish forces meet and greet each other on the battlefield.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6956 on: January 15, 2021, 03:37:07 pm »
I'm thinking of the Anwar Sadat military parade.  Just can't figure out who Sadat is in this scenario.

Trump's approval rating is finally plummeting.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6957 on: January 15, 2021, 03:38:19 pm »

And - in case you need a reminder - do NOT engage with the Trump cult... They are liars and foreign plants.  Just tell them so, and move on.  I am saving so much free time I started a Covid victory garden !

Offline segnosaur

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6958 on: January 15, 2021, 03:51:39 pm »
Trump's approval rating is finally plummeting.
Yes, sort of...

According to the 538 polling website, his approval rating has dropped ~7% since the election. Which sounds good.

The bad part is, he is still at 38%. And that's not even the lowest point in his approval. (It was lower at the end of 2017.)
So after all that he has done... messing up the response to the covid pandemic, seeing a collapse in the economy, and supporting terrorism, 2 out of 5 voters are saying "I want that!"


https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
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Offline Black Dog

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6959 on: January 15, 2021, 04:17:55 pm »
I'm thinking of the Anwar Sadat military parade.  Just can't figure out who Sadat is in this scenario.

Trump's approval rating is finally plummeting.

Open question if his support is dropping among Republicans because of the coup or because the coup was not successful.
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