Author Topic: The Donald Trump Thread  (Read 150240 times)

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Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #780 on: September 27, 2017, 02:47:19 pm »
Why few White Americans are all that supportive of BLM

The Alton Sterling and Philando Castile shootings have caused an uproar among leftists because they fuel their narrative that racist white police officers are hunting down innocent black men. But the statistics – brought to light by the superb work of Heather Mac Donald – tell a different story.


http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #781 on: September 27, 2017, 02:54:58 pm »
I would love to run against this guy.

They are trying to figure out how to defeat these types.  It seems that the very rational arguments you put forward might not work against an electorate who wants to put forward the most outrageous candidates they can.

Offline Hal 9000

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #782 on: September 27, 2017, 02:57:03 pm »
"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media

You see, it's not coincidental that he chose to protest the national anthem.  He knew what he was/is protesting and that is "pride in the flag" (and he gave reasons for this).  Sure, he has his right, and no matter how you people want to disconnect the issues and claim something that he has not even claimed - to make it okay, is not gonna pass with too many people.  He has taken a stand against the flag and against the anthem and no matter how much you want to claim otherwise, about 70% of Americans know that to be the truth.

Essentially, the term "shitting in your own back yard" comes to mind.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #783 on: September 27, 2017, 03:00:34 pm »
Is that your standard for admiration? Do you admire Adolph Hitler?

If not perhaps you might concede things aren't as simplistic as you make them out to be.

Ok.  Well... do you think calling attention to police brutality is the same kind of thing as marching for... I don't know what they were marching for... bringing Hitler back ?

Adding more attributes to the equation doesn't seem to help.  Here we are:
                Group:      Charlottesville Nazis             NFL Protesters               Soldiers

Attribute
Qualities of Group            Hateful                            Not worldly                      ?
Nobility of goal                Non existent                        ?                          Generally accepted
Bravery                          Questionable                    Depends                   Unquestionable


Offline Omni

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #784 on: September 27, 2017, 05:14:20 pm »
"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media

You see, it's not coincidental that he chose to protest the national anthem.  He knew what he was/is protesting and that is "pride in the flag" (and he gave reasons for this).  Sure, he has his right, and no matter how you people want to disconnect the issues and claim something that he has not even claimed - to make it okay, is not gonna pass with too many people.  He has taken a stand against the flag and against the anthem and no matter how much you want to claim otherwise, about 70% of Americans know that to be the truth.

Essentially, the term "shitting in your own back yard" comes to mind.

He has taken a stand against the ongoing racism that exists in the US. Why can't you right wingers seem to comprehend that?

Offline Hal 9000

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #785 on: September 27, 2017, 05:49:45 pm »
He has taken a stand against the ongoing racism that exists in the US. Why can't you right wingers seem to comprehend that?

....by doing what?

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #786 on: September 27, 2017, 06:16:33 pm »
They are trying to figure out how to defeat these types.  It seems that the very rational arguments you put forward might not work against an electorate who wants to put forward the most outrageous candidates they can.

These are the kind of arguments that Clinton should have been making in the election. He was calling her every name in the book while she was 'taking the high road'. Well where did the high road wind up? In a forest in Main wondering how she lost.

I'm not a high road kind of guy when dealing with someone like Trump. I'd have been buying radio time all across the country to play recordings of him calling up a radio station pretending to be his publicist and bragging about his sexual prowess with his mistress of the time. I'd have been putting his mug shot on TV ads with a big red ADULTERER slapped across his forehead, next to similar pictures of his supporters like Rudy Gilliunai,  Steve Bannon and Roger Ailes. I'd have found some of those teenage girls from the Miss Teen USA pageant to talk about how they were half naked when Trump barged into their dressing room to gawk at them.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #787 on: September 27, 2017, 06:18:30 pm »
He has taken a stand against the ongoing racism that exists in the US. Why can't you right wingers seem to comprehend that?

He's a wack job, just to begin with. And his 'stand' is specifically about police killing Black criminals, which most of us right wingers aren't all that sympathetic to.

"if you see the red light in your rear view mirror, STOP IMMEDIATELY! Because everyone knows, if the police have to come get you, they're bringing an ass whooping with them."  - Chris Rock
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #788 on: September 27, 2017, 06:20:06 pm »
Ok.  Well... do you think calling attention to police brutality is the same kind of thing as marching for... I don't know what they were marching for... bringing Hitler back ?

Do you think getting shot at and bombed in Afghanistan is on the same 'bravery' level as kneeling at a football game? Because that was your suggestion.


"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #789 on: September 27, 2017, 06:27:56 pm »
Do you think getting shot at and bombed in Afghanistan is on the same 'bravery' level as kneeling at a football game? Because that was your suggestion.

I didn't make any comment about 'levels' of bravery.  You dismissed the bravery and risk of protesting by saying they're headstrong and naive.  And I pointed out that such comments aren't usually made about soldiers.  It seems to me you're looking for ways to discount the protest that aren't necessary to the discussion.

Offline kimmy

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #790 on: September 27, 2017, 10:36:16 pm »
Fascinating how culture changes, huh?

Well, as the articles I posted indicate, in regards to the NFL it's not that culture changed, it's that the NFL decided to promote fake patriotism because the Department of Defense paid them to.

When I was younger Dominion Day was a nice, sleepy holiday, and we looked down on those gauche Americans and all their patriotic fofoorah on July 4th. Painting faces and draping yourself in flags? Seriously!?

But after years of energetic federal government propaganda Canadians now take that sort of thing for granted. You see them every July 1st, painting their faces, draping themselves in the flag and shouting their love of Canada - very much like Americans.

When my family moved to Ottawa from the west, sometime around 1998, I was quite taken aback at the degree of overt nationalism on display. I hadn't seen anything like that when I lived in Edmonton or Vancouver or Victoria.  I don't see such nationalism in Kim City, or when I visit Edmonton or Vancouver. Except briefly during the Vancouver Olympics, when everybody was all amped up about all the gold medals. I can't speak for the rest of Ontario, but I definitely think Ottawa is different from the west in terms of nationalism.

Of course, we also know that the Chretien regime's reasons for playing with patriotism and nationalism, were, like the NFL's, rooted in dollars and not in sincerity. Chretien and friends were funneling money to connected advertising agencies to put a Maple Leaf on anything that wasn't nailed down, and in return the lucky agencies were funneling kickbacks right back to the Liberal party coffers.  I'm sure there's probably an H.L. Mencken adage that would apply, but I haven't got it handy right now.

Now everyone is used to the anthem and used to players standing for it. Deliberately not doing so as an act of defiance is seen as extremely unpatriotic.

Since playing on the patriotism and nationalism of the gullible is what got Trump elected, it's no surprise that he's adopted this as his new cause.

This is the same kind of simplistic emotionalism that has been used to lead dullards around by the nose for ages. "If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists."  "If you don't support the Iraq war, you don't support our troops!" "Support our heroes in blue!"  "America! Love it or leave it!" "If you god damn hippies don't support the Vietnam War, why don't you go live in China you god damn commies!"

People who view the world in such simple terms are the people who put Trump in office, so no wonder he's once again appealing to their nuance-free sensibilities at a time when he desperately needs distractions.


 -k
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Offline kimmy

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #791 on: September 27, 2017, 11:21:13 pm »
....by doing what?

By using his public platform to make a peaceful statement about his beliefs.

 -k
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Offline kimmy

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #792 on: September 27, 2017, 11:29:10 pm »
He's a wack job, just to begin with. And his 'stand' is specifically about police killing Black criminals, which most of us right wingers aren't all that sympathetic to.

"if you see the red light in your rear view mirror, STOP IMMEDIATELY! Because everyone knows, if the police have to come get you, they're bringing an ass whooping with them."  - Chris Rock

The notion that the cops should be able to act as an extrajudicial execution squad is pretty opposite to the kind of conservatism I thought you stood for.

 -k
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Offline Omni

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #793 on: September 27, 2017, 11:39:57 pm »
The notion that the cops should be able to act as an extrajudicial execution squad is pretty opposite to the kind of conservatism I thought you stood for.

 -k

Argus has expressed that kind of "conservatism" since day one. Where ya been?

Offline Hal 9000

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #794 on: September 28, 2017, 12:23:52 am »
By using his public platform to make a peaceful statement about his beliefs.

 -k

Wrong!  He could've done a thousand things that would've been better and less destructive.  As it is, he turned off many people who otherwise would support his cause.  Now, it's the NFL's problem.