Author Topic: The Donald Trump Thread  (Read 150121 times)

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Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #765 on: September 26, 2017, 08:15:47 am »
https://twitter.com/NASCARONFOX/status/912083239682039808

Now NASCAR is out-patrioting the NFL.  Ridiculous.

There are huge issues happening with NK, Healthcare, and the economy.  People would rather fight over identity issues.  Let them protest, I say, but if you disagree or not, let's move the issue of racial injustice to the stakeholder who can do something about it.... this is so far removed and is now about other things completely.
Hard to believe a sports organization with virtually no visible minorities, whose head offices are in North Carolina, would condemn protests against racial oppression. /s

Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #766 on: September 26, 2017, 08:20:07 am »
Even if you agree, as many do, that some police shootings were unjustified, if the victim was a criminal - self identified by running from police - they're not going to have a lot of sympathy in most cases.
Those "many" people are **** morons. Criminal justice is based on the premise of innocent until proven guilty. People who support the police murdering in the streets those who are not an immediate threat to the lives of those around them are a real threat to society. This goes against our fundamental human rights. It goes against the idea of a fair and just judicial system. And quite frankly, the conversation most of the time is racist as **** because it's almost never about white people.

Everyone is entitled to a court date. Everyone. And if you think it's just that cops get to play judge, jury, and executioner in the streets against unarmed people, you disgust me.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #767 on: September 26, 2017, 11:19:40 am »
I didn't say that - I'm playing your judgement matrix back to you.

Suitably altered into a straw man that doesn't fit his clothes...
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #768 on: September 26, 2017, 11:25:07 am »
Those "many" people are **** morons. Criminal justice is based on the premise of innocent until proven guilty.

Yes, yes, and everyone understands that. No one thinks cops should shoot people in the back, well, almost no one. But in a case where a criminal dies during a physical struggle with police most people aren't going to get too upset. The original case being one of those. Almost none of the people shot by police were law-abiding citizens, and the public generally has little sympathy for criminals. More to the point, they can't see this ever happening to them, since they would obey the law and obey a cop's orders, especially a cop pointing a gun at them. The Chicago case, for example, where a cop shot a black guy walking down the road with a knife - unjustified in my opinion. Nevertheless, most people would never see themselves walking down a street carrying a knife while twenty cops pointed guns at them and shouted at them to drop the knife. Most people would say if your response to that is to scream curses at the police, well, society is probably not much harmed by your early exit from it.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #769 on: September 26, 2017, 01:12:35 pm »
Trump seems to once again have gotten his tweet fingers working before his brain was engaged. He says there was  medium range ballistic missile fired in Iran which could have threatened Israel. Only trouble is, there was no missile fired. He was a little confused by a months old video he happened to see. We all know Trump's credibility has been in the crapper for some time, but he should be a little more careful about those kinds of dangerous mistakes.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/25/politics/us-iranian-missile-launch-fake/index.html

Offline cybercoma

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #770 on: September 26, 2017, 08:39:31 pm »

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #771 on: September 27, 2017, 05:06:52 am »
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/27/politics/roy-moore-alabama-republican-establishment/index.html

"How Roy Moore won the first battle of the anti-McConnell war"

So as I understand it, the crazies still LIKE Trump but they want to elect somebody even CRAZIER than him to help the cause ?


Offline kimmy

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #772 on: September 27, 2017, 09:03:04 am »
I have NOT checked this one for accuracy but it seems like it plays in.

I can't find evidence to support the claim that the players didn't participate in the anthem before 2009. But the US military has definitely paid the NFL a lot of money over the past several years to promote military service.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/04/news/companies/team-paid-military-tributes/index.html

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/15611052/nfl-returning-723000-taxpayers-paid-military-tributes

In short, football was politicized well before Colin Kaepernick started kneeling during the anthem.  If the players are going to be used for political purposes, I don't see why they shouldn't make their own feelings felt.


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Offline kimmy

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #773 on: September 27, 2017, 09:18:54 am »
Ok, it is a fact that the players weren't required to be on the field during the anthem prior to 2009.

It's covered in this article from September 2016, before Trump was president, in response to the then-new controversy regarding Colin Kaepernick.

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/yp89dj/stephen-a-smith-points-out-nfls-paid-patriotism-problem

Quote
It's a tribute to the NFL's ability to drape itself in the flag that nobody even realizes that – prior to 2009 – players being on the field for the national anthem wasn't even standard practice.

...

NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy confirmed this morning the practice began in 2009, adding, 'As you know, the NFL has a long tradition of patriotism. Players are encouraged but not required to stand for the anthem.'

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/nzx95m/us-citizens-paid-68-million-to-pro-sports-teams-for-military-ads

Quote
In total, the DOD spent $53 million in advertising contracts with sports teams over the time studied, the majority of which was legitimate, according to the report. Some $10.4 million of that figure was for the "paid patriotism" variety, and $6.8 million of that came directly from taxpayers.

Among the big winners in these contracts were the Falcons, Giants, Bills, and (naturally) Patriots. Atlanta received $879,000 from the Georgia Army National Guard, while the Giants, Bills, and Patriots received "at least" $500,000 each for similar shows of pride.

Lest you think this is just a professional scam, college programs also got in on the act. Indiana, Purdue, and Wisconsin were all mentioned by name as having received over half a million dollars during the same time period.

The rationale for these contracts, as put forth by the NFL and DOD, is that they were recruiting tools. The report notes that this is not only a preposterous argument, but that it is not one that should be made on the taxpayer's dime.

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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #774 on: September 27, 2017, 10:37:43 am »
Suitably altered into a straw man that doesn't fit his clothes...

There's no straw man here.

There is a group of people acting according to their conscience.

You have added a dimension that allows you to discount the valour of one group, but not another.

Really, you should stop moralizing so much, that would fix it.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #775 on: September 27, 2017, 11:53:23 am »
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/27/politics/roy-moore-alabama-republican-establishment/index.html

"How Roy Moore won the first battle of the anti-McConnell war"

So as I understand it, the crazies still LIKE Trump but they want to elect somebody even CRAZIER than him to help the cause ?

I would love to run against this guy. First I'd call him Mr and not Judge, and I'd point out that we grant ex high ranking military people their title as a kind of honorary thing, as in General this or Colonel that, but not if they'd been court martialled. This loony was booted out of his job twice for refusing to obey the supreme court. A judge who says he doesn't have to follow the Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court!

Second I'd point out that I respect the constitution, unlike my opponent, and stand for law and order, unlike my opponent.  You don't stand for law and order while spurning the orders of the court and ignoring the law.

Third I'd point out I'm a Christian, unlike my opponent. Men like this tend to focus on the Old Testament, which has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. In fact, it's mostly stolen from the Jewish bible. The New Testament is the story of Jesus, and the primary focus of Jesus' teachings, if you could say it had one, was to love one another, be kind, and to take care of each other, especially the poor and sick. What exactly about this guy, his statements, or the Republican Party with is hedonistic, adulterous fornicator-and-groper-in chief has anything in common with that?
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #776 on: September 27, 2017, 11:56:47 am »
There's no straw man here.

There is a group of people acting according to their conscience.

You have added a dimension that allows you to discount the valour of one group, but not another.

Okay, well, those white supremacists in Charlottesville were acting according to their consciences too. So that's all good too, right? The Nazis in Germany were acting according to their consciences too. So were Stalin's people and the Chinese Red Guards. They were all doing what they thought was right.

Is that your standard for admiration? Do you admire Adolph Hitler?

If not perhaps you might concede things aren't as simplistic as you make them out to be.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #777 on: September 27, 2017, 12:01:55 pm »
Ok, it is a fact that the players weren't required to be on the field during the anthem prior to 2009.

Fascinating how culture changes, huh?
Wasn't all that long ago the Chretien Liberals had to change their Marriage Act bill because of opposition within their own caucus. Liberal MPs were afraid that the wording didn't make it clear enough that marriage was strictly for a man and a woman.

When I was younger Dominion Day was a nice, sleepy holiday, and we looked down on those gauche Americans and all their patriotic fofoorah on July 4th. Painting faces and draping yourself in flags? Seriously!?

But after years of energetic federal government propaganda Canadians now take that sort of thing for granted. You see them every July 1st, painting their faces, draping themselves in the flag and shouting their love of Canada - very much like Americans.

Now everyone is used to the anthem and used to players standing for it. Deliberately not doing so as an act of defiance is seen as extremely unpatriotic.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Hal 9000

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #778 on: September 27, 2017, 01:26:15 pm »
The problem facing these NFL players is not that they are peacefully protesting, it's how and when they are doing it.  They are protesting the national anthem and the flag - even though some are trying to say otherwise.  Taking a knee during the anthem wasn't a coincidence, it was a statement from Kaepernick (and now many others) expressing that he didn't respect the anthem or flag (in essence - the country).  Fair enough, I think he looks foolish and hypocritical but he has a right.
Anyway, many americans, fans and veterans love America, love the flag and anthem and have a deeper understanding of the symbolism that those things represent and a protest like this puts those people squarely in the middle of choosing to side with the players and their protest or the national anthem (representing the country).  This decision becomes more complicated when the NFL owners, clearly terrified of being labelled racist and clearly hoping to not **** off 65% of their team and the black community, cave in and hope for the best. 

This means that the NFL fan is effectively supposed to choose between the protestors/NFL teams and their flag (representing their country).  For many people, and especially veterans this is a nearly impossible decision, but they are painfully siding with the flag and staying away from the NFL.  The problem with the manner of protest, is that it's driven away many people (millions) who otherwise might side with it.  IOW, the protest itself is more of a factor than the issue.

In closing, it doesn't help that anyone who sides with the anthem/flag is now labelled a racist.  The Pittsburgh penguins are already being labelled as such for accepting a visit to the Whitehouse.
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guest18

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #779 on: September 27, 2017, 02:22:11 pm »
The problem facing Rosa Parks was she was clearly protesting public transportation, even though she may have said otherwise. She may have indicated it was a protest against segregation, but those of us who love buses know otherwise.
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