Author Topic: The Donald Trump Thread  (Read 149877 times)

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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #735 on: September 24, 2017, 04:37:49 pm »
Maybe the players should decouple their politics from their jobs. Who else thinks they could go to work and make some kind of divisive protest every day and not be fired?

Well, they are taking a moral stance at great risk to their income.  Whether or not you agree with their plaint, wouldn't you say that it's a selfless thing to do ?  They're sure not helping their careers any.

Now, the NFL can take action against 1 guy but not 100.  Time for some politics... to fix the politics.

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #736 on: September 24, 2017, 05:27:02 pm »
College and high school football kids players going to have considerable influence on their peers and families.   Are they mpre likely or less likely to support coaches and players they may see as heroes and role models?

Offline wilber

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #737 on: September 24, 2017, 05:40:16 pm »
Maybe the players should decouple their politics from their jobs. Who else thinks they could go to work and make some kind of divisive protest every day and not be fired?

Love to see those patriotic fans when the NFL and NBA fired every black player. Like that’s going to happen. The players hold the hammer here. Typical Trump bullshit.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #738 on: September 24, 2017, 06:03:28 pm »
https://twitter.com/NASCARONFOX/status/912083239682039808

Now NASCAR is out-patrioting the NFL.  Ridiculous.

There are huge issues happening with NK, Healthcare, and the economy.  People would rather fight over identity issues.  Let them protest, I say, but if you disagree or not, let's move the issue of racial injustice to the stakeholder who can do something about it.... this is so far removed and is now about other things completely.

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #739 on: September 24, 2017, 06:16:06 pm »


I have NOT checked this one for accuracy but it seems like it plays in.

Offline wilber

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #740 on: September 24, 2017, 06:21:49 pm »
Nice to see the owners backing their players on this.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #741 on: September 24, 2017, 06:28:01 pm »
Democracy is dying.

Offline Omni

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #742 on: September 24, 2017, 06:43:58 pm »
Maybe the players should decouple their politics from their jobs. Who else thinks they could go to work and make some kind of divisive protest every day and not be fired?

Listening to the national anthem is not part of their job, and so demonstrating their foirst amendment rites during that time is up to them.

Offline Omni

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #743 on: September 24, 2017, 06:46:46 pm »
Why would it make you wonder? Americans are very patriotic, especially w/r to the visible props of patriotism like the flag and anthem. And most white Americans don't think cops shooting Black criminals who resist arrest is something worth spurning the anthem and flag for.

What about Black "suspects" who are unarmed and get shot in the back, or reaching for their drivers license when a cop asks them for it?

Offline Omni

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #744 on: September 24, 2017, 06:52:19 pm »
Nice to see the owners backing their players on this.

Certainly is. And it once again points out who should actually get fired.

Interesting how a certain poster on here who previously claimed not to be a fan of Trump's appears to have changed direction now that the race card is front and center.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 06:54:35 pm by Omni »

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #745 on: September 25, 2017, 10:18:36 am »
Well, they are taking a moral stance at great risk to their income.  Whether or not you agree with their plaint, wouldn't you say that it's a selfless thing to do ?  They're sure not helping their careers any.

Now, the NFL can take action against 1 guy but not 100.  Time for some politics... to fix the politics.

Risking your job when you live hand to mouth and jobs are scarce is brave. Risking your job when you're a multi-millionaire on a multi-year contract - not so much. Plus there's this aggressive culture of machismo among Black males, particularly athletes. They don't care about threats. And as pampered pets since they started showing promise on the football field, I don't think they're all that worried about real repercussions.
 
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #746 on: September 25, 2017, 10:22:54 am »
What about Black "suspects" who are unarmed and get shot in the back, or reaching for their drivers license when a cop asks them for it?

Even if you agree, as many do, that some police shootings were unjustified, if the victim was a criminal - self identified by running from police - they're not going to have a lot of sympathy in most cases. The worse cases of unjustified shooting I've seen have been against Whites. All the ones involving blacks have involved people resisting arrest - with the exception of that guy who said he had a gun and reached for something, alarming the trigger happy cop.

Do I feel sorry for that guy shot in the back? He refused to stop for police, racing away in his car, when he crashed he ran for it. When the cop caught him he fought him and knocked the tazer out of his hands, then ran for it again. Did he deserve death for that? No. And the cop should be fired and punished. Do I feel particularly sorry for him? Nope. Nor do most White Americans.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #747 on: September 25, 2017, 10:26:04 am »
Risking your job when you live hand to mouth and jobs are scarce is brave. Risking your job when you're a multi-millionaire on a multi-year contract - not so much. Plus there's this aggressive culture of machismo among Black males, particularly athletes. They don't care about threats. And as pampered pets since they started showing promise on the football field, I don't think they're all that worried about real repercussions.

I agree that there is less risk, but also it's different: any time, even one game off, during your prime years reduces your potential for fame, achievement and money.  Also, I have yet to see a correlation between NFL earnings and willingness to kneel.  In fact, I'd bet that high-visibility QBs are less willing to make waves, especially white ones, than linemen. 

Your idea that they don't 'care about threats' really says they're not too bright.  But you're opening up a door to discounting bravery in anyone based on group demographics really.  The implication is that they're not to be admired as much, correct ?  IF you follow that idea, though, it takes you to weird places.  Take race out of it and you can say something like "soldiers aren't really brave, they're just dumb young guys".


Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #748 on: September 25, 2017, 10:26:28 am »
Certainly is. And it once again points out who should actually get fired.

Interesting how a certain poster on here who previously claimed not to be a fan of Trump's appears to have changed direction now that the race card is front and center.

I made MY opinion known on this issue long before Trump did. Based on intelligence and logical facts presented. The use of intelligence and facts differentiates me from certain other posters.

Anyone is free to look it up on that other site. And I would say my criticism of Trump has been pretty consistent, knowledgeable and intelligent - as opposed to the bleating whines of certain other posters.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #749 on: September 25, 2017, 10:35:40 am »
I agree that there is less risk, but also it's different: any time, even one game off, during your prime years reduces your potential for fame, achievement and money.  Also, I have yet to see a correlation between NFL earnings and willingness to kneel.  In fact, I'd bet that high-visibility QBs are less willing to make waves, especially white ones, than linemen. 

The individual risk, as you point out, is pretty minimal when you're part of 200 guys who kneel. The risk is generalized. NFL will be less popular, and have fewer fans, and ultimately, they might have to settle for a little less money next contract negotiation if it continues, but that's all ephemeral stuff.

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Your idea that they don't 'care about threats' really says they're not too bright.

Football players, not too bright? Perish the thought!

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But you're opening up a door to discounting bravery in anyone based on group demographics really.  The implication is that they're not to be admired as much, correct ?  IF you follow that idea, though, it takes you to weird places.  Take race out of it and you can say something like "soldiers aren't really brave, they're just dumb young guys".

First, it's your contention they're brave and mine that they see little likelihood of serious punishment. Further, I don't think they have the foresight or intelligence to imagine being seriously punished for anything. Have you ever read up on these guys? Not just football but other pro athletes? Once you're the star of team in high school you're practically teflon. You can do just about anything and the school will forgive it and help you out. Everyone admires you. You're going somewhere. It gets worse in college. You're gonna be a millionaire if you're a star, and everyone wants to be your friend. They live in a life where they never have to apologize to anyone, at least, not off the field. I can't remember the paper I read this in but this kind of sums it up.   http://globalsportsdevelopment.org/m/2015/03/03/the-culture-of-preferential-treatment-among-athletes/
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum