Author Topic: The Donald Trump Thread  (Read 149992 times)

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Offline Omni

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #720 on: September 22, 2017, 01:15:52 pm »
His approval rating has gone up because he reached across the aisle and started cutting deal with Democrats. Americans are heartily sick of the intransigence of the two political parties in failing to work together.

His ratings actually went up because a lot of his followers like the "fire and fury" rhetoric, and because he got a few brownie points over how he dealt with the hurricane mess.
If you had heard John MCcain speaking today on his approach to the current healthcare proposal from the GOP you would not think there is much in the way of deal making going on.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #721 on: September 22, 2017, 06:18:51 pm »
And yet, despite his eloquence, Obama was a fumble-fingered incompetent in foreign policy.

Compared to Trump, Obama's foreign policy is nothing short of spectacular.  Faults and all.

Offline Omni

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #722 on: September 22, 2017, 07:25:57 pm »
And yet, despite his eloquence, Obama was a fumble-fingered incompetent in foreign policy.

One has to simply laugh at your comment. Obama's foreign policy brought a lot of soldiers out of Afghanistan and Iraq, he dealt with issues such as poverty, gun laws, unemployment, immigration, the criminal justice system, and even won a Nobel Prize. All the while he was snubbed by the right wingers in congress who didn't want to see any progress in case it might be attributed to the other side of the aisle.

Now let's look at what Trump has done.....you tell us.

Offline kimmy

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #723 on: September 22, 2017, 09:34:25 pm »
Compared to Trump, Obama's foreign policy is nothing short of spectacular.  Faults and all.

Wasn't Obama's foreign policy really just the same US interventionism that has been practiced pretty much non-stop since the 2nd world war? I mean, he framed it in more positive terms, but is there any substantive difference between Obama's policy towards Syria or other Middle East nations as compared with previous US administrations' meddling in the Middle East or Central America?   I mean, I like Obama, and I was skeptical at first but I think that overall he was pretty good... but are his Middle East policies *substantively* different from previous administrations?

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Offline Omni

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #724 on: September 22, 2017, 10:23:43 pm »
Wasn't Obama's foreign policy really just the same US interventionism that has been practiced pretty much non-stop since the 2nd world war? I mean, he framed it in more positive terms, but is there any substantive difference between Obama's policy towards Syria or other Middle East nations as compared with previous US administrations' meddling in the Middle East or Central America?   I mean, I like Obama, and I was skeptical at first but I think that overall he was pretty good... but are his Middle East policies *substantively* different from previous administrations?

 -k

Well here's one glaring difference: the previous administration declared and illegal war (Iraq), and Obama retreated from the war. He may have done it too fast but that's a matter of opinion. The facts are the facts.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #725 on: September 23, 2017, 10:17:25 am »
One has to simply laugh at your comment. Obama's foreign policy brought a lot of soldiers out of Afghanistan and Iraq, he dealt with issues such as poverty, gun laws, unemployment, immigration, the criminal justice system, and even won a Nobel Prize. All the while he was snubbed by the right wingers in congress who didn't want to see any progress in case it might be attributed to the other side of the aisle.

Now let's look at what Trump has done.....you tell us.

What has the criminal justice system, unemployment, poverty or gun laws got to do with Obama's foreign policy? Yeah, he won a Nobel Prize, for being Black. He got it less than a year into his presidency and hadn't actually done ANYTHING of note other than being elected.

Obama took office with endless good will and delight from all America's allies. But they all quickly tired of his academic lecturing and indecisiveness. I won't say they mocked and held him in contempt as they do Trump, but they sure didn't like him much. America's closest allies felt much more distant by the time he left office, including Canada. For all that Obama was worshiped by the Canadian Left he basically **** slapped us whenever the opportunity arose. He wasn't any more friendly with the British, French, Germans, Israelis or third world allies.
Russian and Chinese influence thrived under Obama, and Islamic militarism expanded and spread.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Omni

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #726 on: September 23, 2017, 11:35:46 am »
What has the criminal justice system, unemployment, poverty or gun laws got to do with Obama's foreign policy? Yeah, he won a Nobel Prize, for being Black. He got it less than a year into his presidency and hadn't actually done ANYTHING of note other than being elected.

Obama took office with endless good will and delight from all America's allies. But they all quickly tired of his academic lecturing and indecisiveness. I won't say they mocked and held him in contempt as they do Trump, but they sure didn't like him much. America's closest allies felt much more distant by the time he left office, including Canada. For all that Obama was worshiped by the Canadian Left he basically **** slapped us whenever the opportunity arose. He wasn't any more friendly with the British, French, Germans, Israelis or third world allies.
Russian and Chinese influence thrived under Obama, and Islamic militarism expanded and spread.

Manning down wars in foreign countries has a fair bit to do with foreign policy in case you hadn't heard. The other issues he made gains in show he wasn't quite as incompetent as you might think. You did suggest though that he got his Nobel Prize simply because he was Black so I think we get where you're coming from. Again.

Offline BC_cheque

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #727 on: September 23, 2017, 12:27:37 pm »
Wasn't Obama's foreign policy really just the same US interventionism that has been practiced pretty much non-stop since the 2nd world war? I mean, he framed it in more positive terms, but is there any substantive difference between Obama's policy towards Syria or other Middle East nations as compared with previous US administrations' meddling in the Middle East or Central America?   I mean, I like Obama, and I was skeptical at first but I think that overall he was pretty good... but are his Middle East policies *substantively* different from previous administrations?

 -k

When I compared Trump's foreign policy to Obama, I was talking about the all encompassing attitude towards the world, which is what to me foreign policy means (not just middle-east). 

Trump espouses the notion of American exceptionalism and not in a dignified way, but in a bellicose aggressive way.  His approach has been like a bully, like the way he's handled North Korea, Mexico, Iran deal, even allies and trade agreements. 

Obama, on the other hand, always considered the USA a part of the world;  maybe a leader, but just another player.  He was often criticized for NOT believing in American exceptionalism and although I don't know what he thinks, he certainly didn't lead the country as though he did.

Yes, there has always been an element of interference in the middle-east for the last 60 years.  Yes, he loved his drones and bombed the crap out of Syria but even on that he did not escalate or make up lies to invade countries, all he did was work with the mess that he inherited.

But again, that's a different topic.  As far as his overall foreign policy went, he was spectacular compared to Trump.  He was very much a diplomat, a word that is completely foreign to Trump.

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #728 on: September 23, 2017, 04:11:30 pm »
As far as his overall foreign policy went, he was spectacular compared to Trump.

You realize what a low bar that is, right? I mean, which president could you NOT say the same of?
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #729 on: September 23, 2017, 04:14:48 pm »
Manning down wars in foreign countries has a fair bit to do with foreign policy in case you hadn't heard.

By following George Bush's withdrawal timeline in Iraq and keeping troops in Afghanistan?

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The other issues he made gains in

Were what?

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You did suggest though that he got his Nobel Prize simply because he was Black so I think we get where you're coming from. Again.

Reality. That's where I'm always coming from. You should visit sometime.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #730 on: September 24, 2017, 09:24:06 am »
Donald Trump agrees with me, not the other way around. Just like to make that point up front.

The morning news shows are ababble with Trump's claim that NFL players who won't stand for the national anthem should be fired. All sorts of sports figures are indignantly protesting about that, but I'm gonna take a guess that when a poll comes out in the next couple of days it's going to show widespread agreement with Trump.

Which is a shame. Because what players and a few owners have done by castigating Trump on this issue is set up two sides. On the one side, is patriotism, the national anthem, the flag, and Donald Trump, and on the other side is them. That might be bullshit but that's how it's going to look. You're going to see more players kneeling during the national anthem now, and more anger from the fans, who were already angry enough to begin with.

Let me point out something these overpaid players don't seem to get. Their job is not to score touchdowns or throw passes, or catch the ball. Their job is to entertain the fans who pay big money to escape the day to day crap they endure, and forget about the real world to immerse themselves in cheering for their football team.

The players are there to entertain them. If they fail to do so it doesn't matter how many touchdowns they score or how many games they win. They are entertainers, in someone else's costume, on someone else's stage in someone else's theater. If the fans are booing them they are utterly failing in their job and they need to go. And fast. Any player who pulls a stunt like that needs to be removed from the team and escorted from the stadium by security.

And if you think people don't care, think again. It isn't just the boos raining down which indicate the impact of these protests.

The Sporting News article says "Nearly one-third (32 percent) of adults say they're less likely to watch NFL game telecasts because of the Kaepernick-led player protests against racial injustice, according to Rasmussen's telephone/online survey of 1,000 American adults conducted Oct. 2-3. Only 13 percent said they were more likely to watch an NFL game because of continuing protests by Kaepernick and supporters such as Antonio Cromartie of the Colts (who was cut only two days after raising a fist during the playing of "The Star-Spangled Banner" in London on Sunday)."


https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2016/10/05/confirmed-nfl-losing-millions-of-tv-viewers-because-of-national-anthem-protests/#5e043dca226c

It turns out those blaming Colin Kaepernick for last season’s decline in NFL viewership have a point: A study has found that the national anthem protests were the main reason disenchanted sports fans tuned out.
The J.D. Power Fan Experience Survey, which polled 9,200 sports buffs, showed that of those who watched less coverage, 26 percent cited players who took a knee instead of standing for the anthem, a protest spurred by then-San Francisco 49ers quarterback Kaepernick
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http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jul/28/national-anthem-protests-top-list-of-reasons-nfl-f/
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 09:28:48 am by SirJohn »
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Online wilber

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #731 on: September 24, 2017, 10:17:27 am »
Makes me wonder why people have a problem with entertainers protesting racial injustice and a President who encourages white nationalists.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #732 on: September 24, 2017, 10:20:12 am »
Makes me wonder why people have a problem with entertainers protesting racial injustice and a President who encourages white nationalists.

Why would it make you wonder? Americans are very patriotic, especially w/r to the visible props of patriotism like the flag and anthem. And most white Americans don't think cops shooting Black criminals who resist arrest is something worth spurning the anthem and flag for.
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum

Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #733 on: September 24, 2017, 03:46:17 pm »
Maybe they should de-couple football, and sports generally, with patriotism ?  If 100+ players defy the show of patriotic fervour that accompanies these games, then now the divisiveness infects them too.   

Offline SirJohn

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #734 on: September 24, 2017, 04:34:00 pm »
Maybe they should de-couple football, and sports generally, with patriotism ?  If 100+ players defy the show of patriotic fervour that accompanies these games, then now the divisiveness infects them too.

Maybe the players should decouple their politics from their jobs. Who else thinks they could go to work and make some kind of divisive protest every day and not be fired?
"When liberals insist that only fascists will defend borders then voters will hire fascists to do the job liberals won't do." David Frum