Author Topic: The Donald Trump Thread  (Read 150060 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline JMT

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3462
  • Location: Waterhen, Manitoba
Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #525 on: August 17, 2017, 09:51:50 pm »
He still didn't have a leg to stand on.  There is no equivalency when there's nazis involved.

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10189
Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #526 on: August 17, 2017, 10:15:32 pm »
So when the KKK shows up in town armed and ready for a fight, people should be pacifists and take their ****?

No, they should protest the KKK and defend themselves if they're indeed physically attacked, and if the KKK does illegal crap then the police should arrest & charge them.  I believe this is how it works in a normally functioning civil democracy.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10189
Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #527 on: August 17, 2017, 10:22:28 pm »
My point - that wasn't always the case in WWII either - certainly not at every engagement.  Overall, the Nazis started it, both times.

So you support mobs of regular citizens lynching Nazis and KKK in America?  I'm sure that will work out well...MLK so proud!
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10189
Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #528 on: August 17, 2017, 10:26:14 pm »
Not really - it's more moral equivalency garbage.

Trying to equate WWII to Charlottesville is garbage.

I'm not saying leftwing protesters are anywhere near as bad as KKK/Nazis, there's no moral equivalency there.  In fact most of those protesters are great citizens.  The Nazis caused most of that crap.  But when you start swinging punches & clubs because you're angry & you hate someone well I think that's bad behaviour no matter Nazi or whomever.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 10:32:35 pm by Moonlight Graham »
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline BC_cheque

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2237
Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #529 on: August 17, 2017, 10:32:04 pm »
He still didn't have a leg to stand on.  There is no equivalency when there's nazis involved.

I'm not talking ideology, of course there is no equivalency.

I'm talking in their deluded heads.  I don't know if you spend any time actually reading what the other side has to say, but in their minds, the nazis were reacting, not acting, when one of them murdered an innocent woman.

I'm not saying I agree with them or that they raise a good point, I just wish nobody on the side of sanity had given them that out and only fought back instead of instigating.

That's the part that bothers me in all this. 

Offline Queefer Sutherland

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10189
Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #530 on: August 17, 2017, 10:39:18 pm »
I'm not saying I agree with them or that they raise a good point, I just wish nobody on the side of sanity had given them that out and only fought back instead of instigating.

That's the part that bothers me in all this.

I don't think that's much of an out.  There's no excuse for driving a car into innocent people.  The facts remains that the vast majority of people protesting the white supremacists were non-violent, & the supremacists came out looking like the morons.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline JMT

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3462
  • Location: Waterhen, Manitoba
Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #531 on: August 17, 2017, 10:43:42 pm »
So you support mobs of regular citizens lynching Nazis and KKK in America?  I'm sure that will work out well...MLK so proud!

Since that's not what happened, I don't feel the need to make a response.

Offline JMT

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3462
  • Location: Waterhen, Manitoba
Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #532 on: August 17, 2017, 10:44:48 pm »
But when you start swinging punches & clubs because you're angry & you hate someone well I think that's bad behaviour no matter Nazi or whomever.

I haven't seen much evidence that happened in any kind of a big way.  The hate was exclusively coming from the Nazis.

Offline JMT

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3462
  • Location: Waterhen, Manitoba
Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #533 on: August 17, 2017, 10:47:18 pm »
I'm not talking ideology, of course there is no equivalency.

I'm talking in their deluded heads.  I don't know if you spend any time actually reading what the other side has to say, but in their minds, the nazis were reacting, not acting, when one of them murdered an innocent woman.

To be frank, I don't care much for what goes on the mind of white supremacists.  Their thought process is obviously corrupted - otherwise they couldn't hate other human beings for such superficial reasons.

Look, the reality is, there would have been no BLM protest if their hadn't been an armed white supremacist march.  One side started everything.  One side came heavily armed.  One side murdered.  That a few people on the other side may have thrown a few unprovoked punched bothers me less than not at all.
Like Like x 1 Agree Agree x 1 View List

Offline BC_cheque

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2237
Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #534 on: August 17, 2017, 11:07:57 pm »
To be frank, I don't care much for what goes on the mind of white supremacists.  Their thought process is obviously corrupted - otherwise they couldn't hate other human beings for such superficial reasons.

Look, the reality is, there would have been no BLM protest if their hadn't been an armed white supremacist march.  One side started everything.  One side came heavily armed.  One side murdered.  That a few people on the other side may have thrown a few unprovoked punched bothers me less than not at all.

I do care how they present their argument because their movement is gaining traction to the point they have a representative in the White House along with a number of his staff.

Their minds may be corrupted, but we have good normal people who see their point (like the few of us on this thread) and that's unfortunate.  To this day the Black Panthers and Malcolm X are maligned where MLK isn't.  Think of the reason why.

When fighting an oppressor it's important to not resort to their tactics.  Think of the Palestine/Israel conflict for example, if the Palestinians would resist using a peaceful solution, they would get a lot further because almost everyone is against Israeli demolishing of Palestinian homes... but the minute they strap a bomb to themselves, no matter how justified their anger at being displaced, people don't want to side with them.

I don't think punching nazis and fighting them on their own level does anything but allow them to justify their distorted sense of reality.  I think real change comes when you're better than that which you claim to hate.

Think Ghandi, Nelson Mandela, MLK.

Offline JMT

  • Administrator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3462
  • Location: Waterhen, Manitoba
Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #535 on: August 17, 2017, 11:41:17 pm »
I personally feel that we tried the better way for a long time now - it doesn't seem to have helped to end white supremacist thinking.

Offline Michael Hardner

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12472
Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #536 on: August 18, 2017, 06:34:36 am »
Chomsky has now stated that antifa helps the alt right agenda.

I think that I agree.  If we make this into a fight, we will increase the visibility of the alt right and give them an opportunity to increase their support.

Offline cybercoma

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2956
Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #537 on: August 18, 2017, 07:58:20 am »
Are you going to insult me in your self-righteousness, or are you going to actually debate me? 
Debate you about what? Whether it's right to fight violent neo-nazis and white nationalists with violence? Where's the debate to be had?

Think about this, neo-nazis would exist even if antifa didn't. Antifa ONLY exists to fight neo-nazis and skinheads. Period. They wouldn't otherwise exist.

There's no god damned equivalence here. Unless you also sit around condemning the violence "perpetrated" by the Allies stopping Nazi Germany.

Offline cybercoma

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2956
Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #538 on: August 18, 2017, 08:03:23 am »
I condemn every single act/utterance of racism and bigotry by those rightwing protestors as well.  But I also condemn every single act of people there who initiated violence, which was mostly done by the racists it seems but also done by certain leftwing protestors. 

So you're like a Mennonite, condemning ALL violence? You're appalled at our troops shooting at ISIS? You're appalled at the death penalty? You're appalled at cops roughing people up when they arrest them? Are you sticking with that all sides narrative for everything? I don't think you are. You're just using it for white supremacists. Time to reflect on your life.

Offline cybercoma

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2956
Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #539 on: August 18, 2017, 08:09:35 am »
I think so too.  Even if the nazis are abhorrent, I don't think instigating violence was right.
Antifa exists to fight white supremacist fascists. They're not instigators, they're a reaction to violence. You know, the groups chanting kill the Jews and Nazi slogans. Yet you call Antifa the instigators? You might want to reflect on that a little more.