Author Topic: The Donald Trump Thread  (Read 150040 times)

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Offline Omni

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #495 on: August 15, 2017, 04:51:42 pm »
Yes he did and he also confirmed his support for Bannon, (who of course shares his bigotry which he displayed endlessly at Breitbart) and to top it off he re-tweeted an image of a train with his name on it running over a CNN reporter. How sleazy and unpresidential would that be at any time, but especially in the wake of Charottesville!

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #496 on: August 15, 2017, 09:49:42 pm »
He's gone further than that... he has also made references comparing Robert E. Lee with George Washington.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-charlottesville-george-washington-a7895401.html

He was comparing them because they both owned slaves.  He's saying if Lee statues are taken down now, will Washington & Jefferson statues be taken down in the future because they owned slaves?  Trump is a complete racist idiot but rarely have I seen such BS media spin as this story.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #497 on: August 15, 2017, 10:03:57 pm »
Trump just issued a statement introducing a proposed infrastructure bill and then took questions from the press. Of course there were next to no questions on the bill, mostly on Charlottesville, and he of course once again succeeded to make a complete and utter ass of himself. He went right back to reiterating his initial remarks of "all sides" which he was so roundly criticized for.

It's disturbing that Trump's default at the last press conference was to defend some of the non-violent right-wingers at the protest while going after the violent lefties...BUT his facts are correct:  there were many people among both sides that initiated violence in Charlottesville, so both sides are to blame.  That doesn't make antifa as bad as neo-nazis and KKK as a whole obviously, and antifa didn't kill anyone with a car, but violence based on hate was started by both sides, footage is all over Youtube.  Hatred of racist nazi supporters doesn't give other regular citizens like you and I the right to physically attack them.
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Offline Omni

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #498 on: August 15, 2017, 10:25:15 pm »
It's disturbing that Trump's default at the last press conference was to defend some of the non-violent right-wingers at the protest while going after the violent lefties...BUT his facts are correct:  there were many people among both sides that initiated violence in Charlottesville, so both sides are to blame.  That doesn't make antifa as bad as neo-nazis and KKK as a whole obviously, and antifa didn't kill anyone with a car, but violence based on hate was started by both sides, footage is all over Youtube.  Hatred of racist nazi supporters doesn't give other regular citizens like you and I the right to physically attack them.

Oh FFS, it's hard to believe there are those so blind/ignorant as to try and defend what Trump tries to flog when of course the videos clearly show the neo nazi **** showing up with tiki torches in one hand and AR 15's in the other and then trying to suggest "there was trouble from both sides" Al the knuckledraggers are showing up it seems. Heil Trump!

Offline kimmy

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #499 on: August 15, 2017, 10:46:04 pm »
Trump has no values or principles of his own.   Even the white nationalists have values and principles they stand for, as wrong as they might be.  Not Trump.  Trump's only value or principle is doing what benefits Trump.  And as far as his short-sighted thinking is concerned, standing up for these Trump Voters is what he thinks suits his interests the best.

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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #500 on: August 15, 2017, 11:07:21 pm »
Oh FFS, it's hard to believe there are those so blind/ignorant as to try and defend what Trump tries to flog when of course the videos clearly show the neo nazi **** showing up with tiki torches in one hand and AR 15's in the other and then trying to suggest "there was trouble from both sides" Al the knuckledraggers are showing up it seems. Heil Trump!

Are you going to insult me in your self-righteousness, or are you going to actually debate me?  Insults are the same childish tactic Trump uses, so are you no better?

I'm not saying violent members of ANTIFA etc. were as bad as the violent KKK/nazis, I'm saying there were members of both sides that showed up with weapons prepared for or even looking for a fight.  The protest footage on youtube proves my point.  But please be just like Trump even more and don't let facts ruin a good narrative.
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Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #501 on: August 15, 2017, 11:10:34 pm »
Trump has no values or principles of his own.   Even the white nationalists have values and principles they stand for, as wrong as they might be.  Not Trump.  Trump's only value or principle is doing what benefits Trump.  And as far as his short-sighted thinking is concerned, standing up for these Trump Voters is what he thinks suits his interests the best.

I think that's giving him too much credit, I think he's standing up for the alt-right Trump voters because he feels they're right to protest the statue coming down.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline kimmy

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #502 on: August 15, 2017, 11:23:16 pm »
I do think there's an argument that the AntiFa people went there looking for a fight.

On the other hand, I also think that there's an argument that maybe if you go around with torches and white power flags and chant Nazi slogans, you should be expecting a fight.

There's an established legal precedent in the United States, that certain speech in and of itself constitutes a breach of the peace, under the general heading "Fighting Words".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words

In layman's terms: Talk ****, Get Hit.



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Offline Omni

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #503 on: August 15, 2017, 11:42:59 pm »
Are you going to insult me in your self-righteousness,

Standing up against racism and bigotry is hardly what anyone would/should call "self-righteousness". And no, your videos do not support your claim. Carrying nazi flags and screaming racist slogans and insults is what is mostly what is seen in those videos. And most of those people travelled in from out of state to be there to raise ****. And btw, the Lee statue wasn't about to be destroyed, it was about to be moved from a park to a museum.   

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #504 on: August 16, 2017, 09:15:55 am »
Standing up against racism and bigotry is hardly what anyone would/should call "self-righteousness". And no, your videos do not support your claim. Carrying nazi flags and screaming racist slogans and insults is what is mostly what is seen in those videos. And most of those people travelled in from out of state to be there to raise ****. And btw, the Lee statue wasn't about to be destroyed, it was about to be moved from a park to a museum.

I condemn every single act/utterance of racism and bigotry by those rightwing protestors as well.  But I also condemn every single act of people there who initiated violence, which was mostly done by the racists it seems but also done by certain leftwing protestors.  Violence in self-defense of physical violence being imminently committed against you or possibly in response to a violent threat against you can be justified, and I'm sure there was plenty of that happening here, but there was more than that happening here.  Everything else should be handled by the police in a civil society, & the cops seemed to fail to act to stop much of the violence so they're to blame too.  We've seen in the US what happens when the law is taken into the hands of citizens, it's created a situation where everyone feels they need to own a gun to protect themselves & gun violence rates are sky high.

Here's video of a leftwing protestor attacking and macing an Alex Jones reporter simply for being associated with dumb Alex Jones.  Police do nothing:

Oh and defending one thing Trump said doesn't mean I defend other things he says or support him general, because I don't, he's a terrible person.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

Offline Queefer Sutherland

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #505 on: August 16, 2017, 09:26:58 am »
There's an established legal precedent in the United States, that certain speech in and of itself constitutes a breach of the peace, under the general heading "Fighting Words".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words

In layman's terms: Talk ****, Get Hit.

If you threaten violence against someone then yeah I can see a self-defense claim on that (which as I said, I'm sure happened at the riots by the KKK/nazis).  But you shouldn't be allowed to attack someone because what they said makes you angry or offended.  Stooping to their level is just going to cause a further breakdown of civility & law and help fuel the riots we saw this week.  Martin Luther King didn't tell his supporters to start punching people.  MLK is possibly the greatest American ever, he should be the model here I think.
"Nipples is one of the great minds of our time!" - Bubbermiley

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #506 on: August 16, 2017, 10:03:22 am »
I agree with MG.  White Supremacists, Nazis etc and their supporters are scum, but if an anti-fa hit first at any individual, that is on them. Non-violent confrontation is more effective at getting one's point across, imo.  Unfortunately people seem to be inherently violent, regardless of their political leanings.

Trump is still wrong for not coming down unequivocally on the alt-right.  If he had ever indicated a balanced viewpoint, then blame on both sides might possibly fly,  but his record reveals his actual intent in this instance. 

Offline segnosaur

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #507 on: August 16, 2017, 10:36:12 am »
Quote
He's gone further than that... he has also made references comparing Robert E. Lee with George Washington.
He was comparing them because they both owned slaves.  He's saying if Lee statues are taken down now, will Washington & Jefferson statues be taken down in the future because they owned slaves?  Trump is a complete racist idiot but rarely have I seen such BS media spin as this story.
That is a flawed argument.

It is true... Washington was not perfect (especially by today's moral standards). The difference is, Washington acted to improve freedom (even if not everyone benefitted equally). Robert E Lee fought for the confederacy, a group that wanted to continue the enslavement of millions.

The monuments to Washingon were not built to honor his actions regarding slavery, but to honor his actions in establishing the U.S. Monuments to confederate solders were built to honor their actions in a war to continue slavery.

Trump should have understood the difference, instead of invoking some sort of 'slippery slope' argument.

Offline segnosaur

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #508 on: August 16, 2017, 10:53:56 am »
It's disturbing that Trump's default at the last press conference was to defend some of the non-violent right-wingers at the protest while going after the violent lefties...BUT his facts are correct:  there were many people among both sides that initiated violence in Charlottesville, so both sides are to blame.
The problem with that argument...

If the racists/neo-nazis did not exist, then the antifa would not exist.
If the antifa people did not exist, the racists/neo-nazis would have continued doing what they were doing.

It may not necessarily be wrong to question the activities of some of the left-wing protestors. But because of the reasons that both groups exist (one side expressing hate, the other saying hate is wrong), then ALL of the blame should go to the racists.

Offline segnosaur

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #509 on: August 16, 2017, 10:55:26 am »
Which I would have come up with it, but still a funny quote:

Good to see Trump is finally acting presidential, in a Jefferson Davis sort of way.