Author Topic: The Donald Trump Thread  (Read 60245 times)

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Offline segnosaur

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6255 on: October 13, 2020, 09:50:28 pm »
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Biden is a moderate democrat. That means he is on the political left, but not on the fringes. That doesn't necessarily mean he says things ONLY because they are popular. It could just mean he has selected policies that a lot of people believe in.
We disagree on that to begin with. I maintain that Biden is totally US establishment and that is not leftist by definition in any country except the US.
An irrelevant point. Where Biden compares to politicians in other countries does not matter, because he is a politician within the American political system.

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You don't have to be a radical to be committed to your policies.Actually Biden has actually been fighting for action on global warming as far back as the 1980s, bringing in one of the first bills in congress to address climate changes. And this was done long before Global warming was considered a significant issue in the political landscape.
I won't dispute that but I would suggest that the US is a renegade country with it's lack of support on climate change and the politics of the people will dictate to Biden.
And once again, AS I PROVIDED EVIDENCE FOR, Biden actually tried to get Congress to address climate change before it was a major political issue.
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Trump does on foreign relations are only for his own re-election interests.
Why are you assuming that?
I assume that because I know of nothing that can't be categorized as being that. Refute with examples if you have an interest in the argument.
I already gave an example... Trump's implication of tariffs that actually end up harming his election chances.

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We know multiple things about Trump: That he is a narcissist (being unwilling to admit any sort of failure or mistake, even if doing so would benefit him), that is an incompetent moron who doesn't understand economics or foreign policy (the man has a string of business failures, including multiple casinos, where the business model is as simple as "customers come in, give money, and leave") and that in the rare occasions where he actually listens to the advice of others, the people he listens to are themselves either corrupt or incompetent. His decisions on trade or foreign policy are more likely to be due to those factors than they are by some sort of political calculation.
I would agree that's correct. But I think you miss my point in that Trump is clever enough to tell lies for political gain during the run-up to the election, then do something different.
Trump is not clever in his lies at all. His lies are, more often than not, blatantly stupid.

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Specifically, demonize China on the virus, trade relations, and other issues because his base is motivated by hating outsiders and now especially the Chinese. But that attitude and position is not in sync with the US overall agenda of big business that's only concerned with more profits. In fact, none of Trump's base of ordinary people are in sync with what must become Trump's priorities. He's simply a corporate psychopath who is lying to the ignorant little people.
While Trump may want to suck up to big business, he is a moron and, frankly, is more likely to harm business than he is to help it.

There is a reason why Goldman Sachs has predicted that the economy will recover faster if the Democrats take both the white house and congress than if Trump wins.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/business/economy-election-blue-wave-goldman-sachs/index.html
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I would suggest that retaliatory tariffs were beyond the capability of Trump's base to comprehend.
It doesn't matter if his base is too stupid to understand the concept of retaliatory tariffs. But what they can comprehend is that, if you are a farmer or manufacturer who can no longer sell to Canada because of trade barriers enacted due to a Trump-inspired trade war, you will not be happy, and be less likely to support Trump.
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Trump gets benefit out of any move against any country, due to the kneejerk mentality of his base. You should watch an hour of one of his rallies to see just what he's doing!
That his base of MAGAchuds are a bunch of brain-damaged xenophobic morons who bask in stupidity is not in doubt. My point was his latest round of aluminium tariffs is not an election issue.... he's not using it to whip up his base... its just a dumb thing he did and probably forgot about.

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Yes, Trump is responsible for most of the deaths due to Covid! But you've wrongly accused me of saying that Trump will beome competent. What Trump will do is get himself on the side of being right without admitting to any mistakes.
Ummm.... not sure if you understand this... but if you think trump will "get himself on the side of being right", then that DOES suggest that you think he will become competent.

Trump is simply too dumb, too incompetent to know what the "right side" is.
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His position on downplaying Covid were strictly for his political purposes and those purposes won't demand anything of him after he's elected.
Uhhhh.... no.

Many of his screw-ups had nothing to do with his political position. Removing embedded CDC scientists from China (who could have helped provide a warning) did not provide political benefit. Disbanding the group that would have coordinated the pandemic response did not provide political benefit. Giving the task of obtaining necessary equipment to his son-in-law did not provide political benefit.

Yet he did all of them.
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And furtheromre, his base will justify everything he's done with some excuse that lets him off the hook. Something perhaps as simple as just claiming that everything he did was for the sake of not scaring or alarming the American people.
The fact that his base is gullible enough to accept his excuses does not mean that his initial actions were done strictly for political purposes. He is incompetent, he screws up, that will not change post-election.
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Biden won't bring about meaningful 'social' change to the US.
Under Obama (who certainly wasn't a "far left" radical) we saw liberalization of drug laws, expansion of gay rights, implementation of financial regulations to protect consumers, worked to increase solar and wind power usage, and the appointment of 2 judges to the supreme court. All positive changes in the right direction.

I see no reason to suspect Biden would not follow the same path.

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They were corrupt and broken before Trump and there's no reason to think Biden is a gift from heaven.
He doesn't have to be a "gift from heaven". He just has to be a decent politician who 1) has a good chance at defeating Trump (which he certainly seems to have) and 2) a set of policies that will have a positive impact (which he appears to have).

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I really doubt that he will even be able to bring about change in health care that would at least come close to that which is taken for a right by the world's leading capitalist first world countries.
And do you think Sanders would do any better?

For better or worse, the majority of Americans prefer a system that covers pretty much everyone, but provides private options. i.e. Sanders' plan is, simply, not popular (at least once people look at its details). Do you think any sort of radical health care reform would get through?

Better chance at a Biden plan being accepted than a Sanders' plan.
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America needs a Bernie
No, actually they don't.

What the U.S. needs is a good 2-3 terms where moderate left-of-center Democrats control the white house and congress. Enough time to make significant positive changes. And the fact is, moderation wins elections. A radical left wing politician like Sanders would likely 1) not be very effective (since even moderates would shy away from his reforms), and 2) probably not last long in office (since, as I pointed out, moderation wins elections).

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but the Dem party rejected Bernie and hijacked his chances twice because that party is afraid that the phony commie, socialist label couldn't be a winner in their country.
They didn't "Hijack" anything. Sanders had no expectation of electoral success. Far from it... he was an outsider who wasn't even a democrat until he decided to run for President. The 'Dems' simply said "this is not the politician and set of policies that we want to present".

If you are going to spend all your time sniping at the Democrats from the outside, don't be surprised if those same Democrats chose not to follow you into battle.
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