Author Topic: The Donald Trump Thread  (Read 52714 times)

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Offline waldo

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6300 on: October 20, 2020, 12:10:04 pm »
NBC: Say, you know who turned out to be right about forest fires?  Donald Trump.https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/decades-mismanagement-led-choked-forests-now-it-s-time-clear-n1243599?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

Better late than never!

notwithstanding Trump's limited view/understanding of so-called forest management is a narrow focus represented by the many times he's talked about gettin' rakes out to clean-up the forest floor!  ;D

wait member Shady, what's this... the federal government owns 57% of the forest land in the state of California. What's Trump been waiting on, hey!

Quote
“You’ve got to take care of the floors. You know the floors of the forests, it’s very important,” Trump said amid the charred ruins of Paradise — his first stop on the tour.

Trump went on to explain that the president of Finland, whom he met on an overseas trip a week earlier, told him about raking the forest floors. “He called it a forest nation,” Trump said, “and they spent a lot of time on raking and cleaning and doing things, and they don’t have any problem.”

Finnish President Sauli Niinisto later disputed this. He told a local newspaper that he had briefed Trump on Finland’s efforts to surveil and care for its forests, The Associated Press wrote, “but said he can’t recall anything being mentioned on raking.”

Raking for leaves and needles is not a normal feature of Finnish fire prevention, according to Rami Ruuska, a forest-fires expert at the Finnish Interior Ministry. Instead, Finns focus on removing dead trees from the forest floor — where possible.

c'mon member Shady, what about Trump threatening to withhold federal funds to California... until Cali buys more rakes! (ok, ok, I kid, I kid). But really, what about prescribed burns - AND the climate change Trump claims is a hoax perpetrated by China... causing the other apparent drought and bark-beetle infestation hoaxes!

Offline waldo

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6301 on: October 20, 2020, 12:12:32 pm »
If we're finished on speculating who will win the presidency waldo, how about a little bet? I'll wager that the popular position will be to not charge Trump with any crimes. Americans consider their presidents to be gods and also the probability of violence by the extreme rightists if charges are pursued.

That doesn't count for civil suits that will inevitably be brought against Trump. Will you bet against my prediction?

moot point! There's a reason for the recent uptick in articles/mentions/speculations on whether or not a sitting president can pardon himself!  ;D

Offline wilber

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6302 on: October 20, 2020, 12:16:49 pm »
Urban Dictionary - Trumpkin: A bitter gourd. Orange on the outside, hollow on the inside, and tossed on the compost pile in early November.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC
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Offline Montgomery

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6303 on: October 20, 2020, 12:18:24 pm »
moot point! There's a reason for the recent uptick in articles/mentions/speculations on whether or not a sitting president can pardon himself!  ;D

I guess it's possible he could do that but I don't think it's going to be necessary. Don't forget, they're Americans and their outgoing presidents all deserve the flagwaving and the stars and stripes song until it becomes nauseating. All will be forgiven. Except some unpopular lawsuits.

Whatever will we do without the gongshow?
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline wilber

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6304 on: October 20, 2020, 12:43:07 pm »
moot point! There's a reason for the recent uptick in articles/mentions/speculations on whether or not a sitting president can pardon himself!  ;D

Presidents can only give pardons for federal crimes. If they can get him for violating state statutes, he will be toast.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Omni

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6305 on: October 20, 2020, 12:49:04 pm »
I guess it's possible he could do that but I don't think it's going to be necessary. Don't forget, they're Americans and their outgoing presidents all deserve the flagwaving and the stars and stripes song until it becomes nauseating. All will be forgiven. Except some unpopular lawsuits.

Whatever will we do without the gongshow?

I don't think all the flag waving is going to affect the SCOTUS. At least hopefully. Trump can be investigated/indicted even while still in office. I hope his lawyers have advised him against gunning someone down on 5th Avenue.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/07/10/supreme-court-vance-immunity/
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 12:53:49 pm by Omni »

Offline Montgomery

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6306 on: October 20, 2020, 12:49:32 pm »
Presidents can only give pardons for federal crimes. If they can get him for violating state statutes, he will be toast.

Are there any examples of state crimes wilbur? You must have something in mind if you suggest it.
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline Montgomery

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6307 on: October 20, 2020, 12:57:32 pm »
I don't think all the flag waving is going to affect the SCOTUS. At least hopefully. Trump can be investigated/indicted even while still in office. I hope his lawyers have advised him against gunning someone down on 5th Avenue.

Granted that Trump is an especially egregious case, but past practice has never varied from 'forgive and forget'. When Nixon dies in 93 it was a time for great sorrow, tears, and the flag flying at half mast. Not a mention of his crimes against humanity or other crimes against the state. I was there in California.
It was believed afterward that the man was a lunatic, because there was no sense in what he said. ~M.T.

Offline MH

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6308 on: October 20, 2020, 01:03:36 pm »
Today he bumped up on the fivethirtyeight model, marking the first day he's turned it around since September at least.

Offline segnosaur

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6309 on: October 20, 2020, 01:05:50 pm »
NBC: Say, you know who turned out to be right about forest fires?  Donald Trump.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/decades-mismanagement-led-choked-forests-now-it-s-time-clear-n1243599?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

Better late than never!
First of all, the idea that you have to have proper forest management is not some big revelation that nobody has ever thought of before.
The problem with Trump is that his only focus is on forest management, and he ignores all other aspects that are relevant in dealing with the California fires, including global warming. (Your article does not address the issue of global warming, and does not disprove that climate change is making the fire problem worse.)

Secondly, remember that Trump suggested "raking the forest floor".... the article you referred to refers to does not suggest that... instead, it suggests things like not putting out fires immediately... something I do not remember Trump ever suggesting doing.

Lastly, Trump has largely blamed California for the fires. But the fact is, the majority of the land that is currently burning in California is controlled by the Federal government. Trump is the incumbent. He has had almost 4 years to address the issue of forest management on federal lands, but has not made any significant efforts to do so.

The fact is, Obama tried to address the issue back when he was president, by trying to separate the issues of fire fighting and forest management, but he was blocked by Republicans in congress.

See: https://www.politico.com/news/agenda/2020/09/15/trump-fires-california-federal-land-415431


Offline segnosaur

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6310 on: October 20, 2020, 01:27:46 pm »
Re: Probability of Trump pardoning himself....
Quote
Presidents can only give pardons for federal crimes. If they can get him for violating state statutes, he will be toast.
Are there any examples of state crimes wilbur? You must have something in mind if you suggest it.
Much of Trump's businesses have been based in New York, so that means they would have jurisdiction over much of his criminal activity.

Currently, New York is investigating whether Trump engaged in bank/financial fraud by overstating the value of some of his properties when trying to obtain loans. Similarly he might be guilty of tax fraud by understating the value of those same properties.

From: https://twitter.com/thegregwalters/status/1308156285251092481 (Journalist Greg Walters)
The Manhattan DA just told a court there's grounds to investigate Trump and his business for fraud -- and got very specific about which statutes:
-Scheme to Defraud
-Falsification of Business Records
-Insurance Fraud
-Criminal Tax Fraud




Offline wilber

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6311 on: October 20, 2020, 01:28:25 pm »
Are there any examples of state crimes wilbur? You must have something in mind if you suggest it.

I think New York amongst others are after him for several things. Unlike Canada, criminal codes are largely a state jurisdiction.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline wilber

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6312 on: October 20, 2020, 01:31:19 pm »
He might drag anything out until he was dead or senile but the kids might not be so lucky.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6313 on: October 20, 2020, 01:42:14 pm »
Presidents can only give pardons for federal crimes. If they can get him for violating state statutes, he will be toast.

Unless a governor pardons him.  But NY leans Democrat.
I can tell how good of a person you are by how you treat the people you disagree with.

Offline segnosaur

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #6314 on: October 20, 2020, 01:43:55 pm »
If we're finished on speculating who will win the presidency waldo, how about a little bet? I'll wager that the popular position will be to not charge Trump with any crimes. Americans consider their presidents to be gods and also the probability of violence by the extreme rightists if charges are pursued.
It is certainly true that in the one case where charges were most warranted (i.e. Nixon), that no criminal charges were laid. It is certainly possible that the same thing could happen with Stubby McBonespurs. (I could certainly see Biden using the same excuses used with Nixon... "we must heal the nation", etc.) This could either take the form of an actual pardon, or just a desire not to prosecute him

There are a few differences however:
- Nixon's pardon was granted by Ford (a fellow Republican). However, even though Biden is a moderate, he is still a Democrat (as would whomever he nominates to be his AG).
- The political system is much more polarized now than it was in the 70s. Nixon was forced out of office in part by Republicans who said "its time to go". In the current environment, the republican party is falling lock-step behind Trump, regardless of what he does. Its harder for the Democrats to justify extending an olive branch to the republicans in that situation.
- Nixon was a flawed president who engaged in criminal activity. But, he at least did SOME good that even the Democrats might have supported... started the EPA, opened relations with China. And at least he kept his racism a bit more discrete. Trump? Not so much. With his leading chants of "lock her up", calls for racists to "stand by", etc. its hard to have the same sort of sympathy for him.