Author Topic: The Donald Trump Thread  (Read 150217 times)

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Offline Michael Hardner

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #1485 on: February 02, 2018, 07:11:06 pm »
Well he has now released the "memo" to try and gut the Russia probe.

Seems like a big nothing.  We already knew most of this.  And Hannity is saying it's the biggest scandal in American history.

They can have their politics, I seem to be less interested the worse it gets.

Offline TimG

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #1486 on: February 02, 2018, 08:09:13 pm »
And the Steele dossier is bad not because it has been proven to be inaccurate, but because after Republicans initiated it some Democrats helped fund it?
Gee, this is the argument that Democrat types always use when they don't like the claims made by a source (i.e. the paper is garbage because the scientist who wrote it spoke at an oil industry event 10 years ago).
This is called 'getting hoisted on your our petard'...
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 08:11:14 pm by TimG »

Offline Omni

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #1487 on: February 02, 2018, 08:22:29 pm »
Trump is so desperate to get the Russia investigation stopped he is willing to try his luck taking out both Rosenstein and Mueller. We may actually find out if a sitting president can be indicted. The election was hacked so why doesn't Trump just sit back and allow that to be investigated, unless there are some stones he doesn't want to be turned. 

Offline wilber

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #1488 on: February 02, 2018, 09:08:25 pm »
Trump OK's and Republicans release memo, Dow drops 666 points. Coincidence?  :o  :)
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Omni

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #1489 on: February 02, 2018, 10:33:58 pm »
Now I hear rumors the current FBI director Chris Wray may resign after the release of the memo. A lot of revolving doors down that way these days it seems.

Offline Hal 9000

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #1490 on: February 03, 2018, 02:39:19 am »
Seems like a big nothing.  We already knew most of this.  And Hannity is saying it's the biggest scandal in American history.

They can have their politics, I seem to be less interested the worse it gets.
 

The government knowingly used false evidence to spy on a the potential president of the US and proceeded to ramp it up in an attempt to impeach and overthrow that president and you call it a big nothing?  Just because people hate Trump they're willing to throw away their freedom, and the press is quite willing to throw away any semblance of integrity that they have left.  WTF is wrong with you people.
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Offline waldo

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #1491 on: February 03, 2018, 07:12:38 am »
The government knowingly used false evidence to spy on a the potential president of the US and proceeded to ramp it up in an attempt to impeach and overthrow that president and you call it a big nothing?  Just because people hate Trump they're willing to throw away their freedom, and the press is quite willing to throw away any semblance of integrity that they have left.  WTF is wrong with you people.

nonsense! Mr. Page was being surveilled long before the Trumpdumpster fire started... the iterative granting of successive warrants went through the judicial approval process involving 4 different federal judges; the granting of successive warrants reflects upon successful surveillance returns. If Mr. Trump was 'captured' in any related surveillance, what you seem to call "spying on a potential president", is a result of the (latter) Page warrants..... notwithstanding, no one/nothing in the manufactured Republican "memo", states anything about Trump being included in any related monitoring - quit making shyte up!

what's most telling is Trump/WH for months-on-end repeatedly referred to Page as 'insignificant' to the campaign... as a relevant unknown. Now, as a part of manufactured (memo) outrage, Trump/WH/Republicans are all 'hot&bothered' about the supposed infringement on Mr. Pages rights/freedoms as an American! Heelarious. The only loss of press integrity you're referring to reflects on TrumpTV (aka Fox News) and its shills for Trump. For someone so claiming to be transparent, cooperating and with nothing to hide, Trump sure is working overtime to show just how guilty he is.

your conspiracy theory would include the fact that many senior people involved in the investigation, including current FBI Director Christopher Wray, former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, current Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, current Director of National Intelligence Dan Coats and former FBI Director Jim Comey, are all longtime Republicans... some of whom Trump appointed to their positions himself... notwithstanding, as I said, 4 separate federal judges within the FISA court processing.

now... you refer to "false evidence" - what "false evidence"? If you're referring to the "dossier", please advise what has been proven to be false within it. More pointedly, show it was used/used as the determining factor, in the granting of a latter warrant against Mr. Page (notwithstanding the granting of prior warrants, pre-dossier, against Mr. Page).

as you say, WTF is wrong... with you? Are you a Russian/Puti bot?

Offline TimG

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #1492 on: February 03, 2018, 07:50:22 am »
The government knowingly used false evidence to spy
Except that is not true. The source of the evidence was biased and that was not disclosed when they applied for the warrant but to say it was 'knowingly false' is untenable given the information we have now.

You must remember that the Trump has deliberately released only the part of the story that supports his narrative and kept any details that might refute his view classified. This, in itself, is a gross abuse of the authority of the office.

I personally doubt there was any real collaboration with Russia and the entire investigation will likely turn up nothing (remember in the 90s the republicans wasted a lot of time trying to bring Clinton down over whitewater and came up with nothing). But what the president has done so far is a clearly gross obstruction of justice and grounds for impeachment. These kinds of tactics to intimidate law enforcement are what we expect to see from "sh**hole" countries.

Offline waldo

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #1493 on: February 03, 2018, 08:12:53 am »
The source of the evidence was biased and that was not disclosed when they applied for the warrant

what evidence/what bias? If you're referring to the 'dossier', it was initially paid for by "Republicans against Trump"... when Trump won the candidacy, its further development was paid for by Democrats. Your premise is that the information within was biased - information gathered as "oppo research" against Trump is not biased; by definition the information met its target intent... the intent wasn't to bring forward favourable Trump aspects.

your premise also assumes the 'dossier' had warrant determining significance by the FISA court, to the exclusion of any/all other determiners. Further, as I'm aware/read, before the FISA hearing, the 'dossier' was referred to as 'politically motivated'... its funding origin wasn't explicitly elaborated upon. But more pointedly, what bearing would that have had on a FISA judge reviewing a warrant application, and in what context would that review have been undertaken? Notwithstanding, again, this was but a renewal application... another renewal on prior warrants against the same Mr. Page (warrants granted pre-dossier).

Offline waldo

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #1494 on: February 03, 2018, 08:18:55 am »
Gee, this is the argument that Democrat types always use when they don't like the claims made by a source (i.e. the paper is garbage because the scientist who wrote it spoke at an oil industry event 10 years ago).

wait, what? Citation request!!!  ;D

guest18

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #1495 on: February 03, 2018, 09:01:02 am »
 

The government knowingly used false evidence to spy on a the potential president of the US and proceeded to ramp it up in an attempt to impeach and overthrow that president and you call it a big nothing?  Just because people hate Trump they're willing to throw away their freedom, and the press is quite willing to throw away any semblance of integrity that they have left.  WTF is wrong with you people.
There is no evidence it was false evidence and they spied on Carter Page not Trump. Get your facts straight.
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guest18

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #1496 on: February 03, 2018, 09:03:07 am »
Except that is not true. The source of the evidence was biased and that was not disclosed when they applied for the warrant but to say it was 'knowingly false' is untenable given the information we have now.

  It was disclosed, as reported by the Post, NYT and WSJ yesterday.

Offline TimG

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #1497 on: February 03, 2018, 09:09:17 am »
Try to keep up. It was disclosed, as reported by the Post, NYT and WSJ yesterday. So your whole premise is based on a lie. What say now?
No idea what you are talking about. What was disclosed establishes a source was biased. It is does not establish that it was knowingly false. There is a difference. There seem to be indications that parts of the dossier were not corroborated which means they "don't know it is true" which is also different from saying it is "knowingly false". Finally no details have been provided on the complete warrant application so we don't have any idea how essential this dossier was or what parts of the dossier were considered to be the most significant. Those details matter before one can level the accusations being made. The one thing that stands out is the FBI did not disclose the bias of the source when the warrant was filed - that was deceptive so the FBI is far from innocent here but that also does not supply enough to make the "knowingly false" claim.

« Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 09:17:22 am by TimG »

Offline TimG

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #1498 on: February 03, 2018, 09:21:49 am »
A somewhat related story about the general incompetence/bad incentives/"the law does not apply to us" attitude at the US DOJ:

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1483588386/amazon0156-20/

Offline waldo

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Re: The Donald Trump Thread
« Reply #1499 on: February 03, 2018, 09:31:43 am »
If you're referring to the "dossier", please advise what has been proven to be false within it. More pointedly, show it was used/used as the determining factor, in the granting of a latter warrant against Mr. Page (notwithstanding the granting of prior warrants, pre-dossier, against Mr. Page).
Your premise is that the information within was biased - information gathered as "oppo research" against Trump is not biased; by definition the information met its target intent... the intent wasn't to bring forward favourable Trump aspects.

your premise also assumes the 'dossier' had warrant determining significance by the FISA court, to the exclusion of any/all other determiners. Further, as I'm aware/read, before the FISA hearing, the 'dossier' was referred to as 'politically motivated'... its funding origin wasn't explicitly elaborated upon.
Finally no details have been provided on the complete warrant application so we don't have any idea how essential this dossier was or what parts of the dossier were considered to be the most significant.

say what? You say "no details have been provided on the warrant application"... and you openly admit that (at least after my prior posts enlightening you), as you say, "we don't have any idea how essential this dossier was", yet you're so insistent to play up a claimed 'bias' attachment. Again, the 'dossier' was provided with a 'political motivation' attachment to it; again, opposition research is not biased research... it is, by design, targeted research.