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Author Topic: Students march for gun control  (Read 618 times)

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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Students march for gun control
« Reply #30 on: March 24, 2018, 09:20:20 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on March 24, 2018, 09:07:19 pm
Not really true. Gun crimes are rarely prosecuted, and the laws are very minor anyway.
When was the last time you read or heard of someone arrested and sentenced for smuggling firearms? Or selling them illegally? Or even possessing them illegally?

Just because you haven't read or heard about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Here are the numbers from 2012 (Statistics Canada) for non-violent firearms crimes:

Possession of weapons11144
Unsafe storage of firearms1109
Weapons possession contrary to order819
Firearms documentation or administration418
Offensive weapons, explosives248
Weapons trafficking113
Unauthorized importing or exporting of weapons72
Offensive weapons, prohibited18
Offensive weapons, restricted5
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Offline BC_cheque

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Re: Students march for gun control
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2018, 09:21:13 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on March 24, 2018, 03:56:37 pm
Compassion for their counterparts? I don't see them marching on behalf of Mexican students who are shot at even more often, or students in Syria or Chad or Venezuela.

Same reason people don’t blink an eye for a terrorist killing hundreds in Nigeria but all hell breaks loose when it’s a handful of Brits.

People have more empathy for people who they can relate to personally.

Edited to add the correct quote.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 09:27:36 pm by BC_cheque »
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Offline Omni

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Re: Students march for gun control
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2018, 09:22:05 pm »
Quote from: wilber on March 24, 2018, 09:07:04 pm
I thought we were discussing changes to Canadian laws.

I started the thread with reference to the US issues just now. I guess things drifted.
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Offline SirJohn

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Re: Students march for gun control
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2018, 09:23:08 pm »
Quote from: ?Impact on March 24, 2018, 09:20:20 pm
Just because you haven't read or heard about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Here are the numbers from 2012 (Statistics Canada) for non-violent firearms crimes:

Possession of weapons11144
Unsafe storage of firearms1109
Weapons possession contrary to order819
Firearms documentation or administration418
Offensive weapons, explosives248
Weapons trafficking113
Unauthorized importing or exporting of weapons72
Offensive weapons, prohibited18
Offensive weapons, restricted5

And what was the average time served? Usually possession of a weapon charges are laid when the weapon is used in the commission of an offense, and then it's usually plea bargained away. I still remember a story of two gang bangers who were pulled over by police and found to have a fully automatic and loaded Uzi in the car. They got a $1000 fine and were sent on their way - minus the Uzi.

If you want to really deal with this stuff you give a mandatory 2 year sentence without parole for a first offence,  mandatory 5 years for a second and mandatory 10 years for a third. People will soon stop carrying guns around because it's too damned dangerous to be caught with one. Likewise you have undercovers trying to buy restricted weapons in every city and every time they succeed the guy who sold it goes away for years. That will make it dangerous to sell and greatly increase the price.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 09:26:11 pm by SirJohn »
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Students march for gun control
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2018, 09:33:50 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on March 24, 2018, 09:23:08 pm
And what was the average time served?

Good question, for weapons trafficking (criminal code section 99) there is a minimum mandatory of 3 years for first offense and 5 years for subsequent ones (10 years maximum). I don't see a lot of reporting in the news, but you do see the odd one when it is related to another crime, or sometimes reported locally. If you are interested in more details, Statscan did a study last year, go to page 15 for firearms part.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2018, 10:02:51 pm by ?Impact »
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Offline Omni

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Re: Students march for gun control
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2018, 09:39:46 pm »
If we want to drift into Canada's gun laws they of course are much tighter and that's a main reason why our incidents of firearm violence are so much lower. And Ralph Goodale is proposing to tighten things up even more.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/canadians-must-wait-45-days-before-buying-their-first-gun-a-new-bill-would-tighten-gun-laws-even-more/2018/03/23/cca2ff70-2c55-11e8-8dc9-3b51e028b845_story.html?utm_term=.05a603ba7cf1

Firearms are already much harder to acquire legally in Canada than in the United States, and the frequency of gun-related violence is markedly lower. But there is a long tradition of hunting and firearm ownership, particularly in rural parts of the country.
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Offline ?Impact

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Re: Students march for gun control
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2018, 09:47:54 pm »
Something interesting I noted in Canadian statistics, not sure if there are similar results in the US. Violent crimes have a fairly high solve rate (85-95%), but throw a gun in the mix and it drops dramatically (50-60%).
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Offline Omni

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Re: Students march for gun control
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2018, 10:06:53 pm »
Hard to say how that works.
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Offline wilber

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Re: Students march for gun control
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2018, 10:21:43 pm »
Quote from: SirJohn on March 24, 2018, 09:07:53 pm
Such as?  You need a background check and have to attend several days of courses to get a restricted license. Your hand gun has to be registered, and you aren't legally allowed to take it anywhere but a gun club. In your home it has to be unloaded, have a trigger lock in place, and be stored, without ammunition, in a locked gun box or cabinet. What more do you want?

Did you read what I said? Was I asking for anything more?
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Offline Squidward von Squidderson

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Re: Students march for gun control
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2018, 10:27:56 pm »
Canada should deem the NRA a terrorist organization and ban them from Canada.  Any foreign group working to lobby our gov’t to weaken Canada’s gun laws is a criminal organization.

https://www.theroot.com/the-nra-is-a-terrorist-organization-1823042189
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Students march for gun control
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2018, 10:39:40 pm »
Quote from: ?Impact on March 24, 2018, 09:20:20 pm
Just because you haven't read or heard about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Here are the numbers from 2012 (Statistics Canada) for non-violent firearms crimes:

Possession of weapons11144
Unsafe storage of firearms1109
Weapons possession contrary to order819
Firearms documentation or administration418
Offensive weapons, explosives248
Weapons trafficking113
Unauthorized importing or exporting of weapons72
Offensive weapons, prohibited18
Offensive weapons, restricted5
Convictions or charges?
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Students march for gun control
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2018, 10:42:35 pm »
Quote from: ?Impact on March 24, 2018, 09:47:54 pm
Something interesting I noted in Canadian statistics, not sure if there are similar results in the US. Violent crimes have a fairly high solve rate (85-95%), but throw a gun in the mix and it drops dramatically (50-60%).
You know what else is interesting? 40% of women killed by guns are killed by an intimate partner or former intimate partner. The proportion of men? 2%.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Students march for gun control
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2018, 10:44:39 pm »
Again I will stress how most of the students that spoke today didn't say they wanted to take away the right to own guns, just to employ a system to make sure those who get them are safe to have them. btw I can imagine BC04 is huffing and puffing with regard to how important his 2nd amendment rights are to Americans on that other place.
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Students march for gun control
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2018, 11:16:15 pm »
Quote from: Omni on March 24, 2018, 10:44:39 pm
btw I can imagine BC04 is huffing and puffing with regard to how important his 2nd amendment rights are to Americans on that other place.
It's like people are viscerally disgusted when innocent children are murdered at school in cold blood by mass murderers, but a government does sweet **** all to address the problems. People were likewise appalled at kids getting killed at a camp in Norway. People were appalled when Russia shot child hostages in a school years ago in Georgia (iirc). It doesn't matter what country it is. We just keep talking about the United States because their government is too stupid to join the rest of the civilized world, so it keeps happening.
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Offline Omni

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Re: Students march for gun control
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2018, 11:17:36 pm »
And if anyone didn't notice there were no adult speakers on stages at the marches anywhere today. And I hear George Clooney was messaged to ask if he would come up on stage to speak and he replied that he would prefer to leave it to the students. Good for him.
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