Author Topic: Riots in the Twin Cities  (Read 1675 times)

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Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Riots in the Twin Cities
« Reply #285 on: June 27, 2020, 09:17:13 pm »
Canadian Universities are renaming buildings named after our first Prime Minister.

A newspaper has printed a trigger warning for printing the Canadian flag because it might be offensive to some:

https://twitter.com/jonkay/status/1276946443736092675
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline Omni

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Re: Riots in the Twin Cities
« Reply #286 on: June 27, 2020, 10:49:27 pm »
They can put them in a museum for that.
Nobody HAS TO see them.

They SHOULD be able to see them in the proper context.

Offline MH

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Re: Riots in the Twin Cities
« Reply #287 on: June 28, 2020, 06:13:28 am »
A newspaper has printed a trigger warning for printing the Canadian flag because it might be offensive to some:

https://twitter.com/jonkay/status/1276946443736092675

So, the tweet says PSEUDO trigger warning, not trigger warning.  And it's not that at all.

Offline wilber

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Re: Riots in the Twin Cities
« Reply #288 on: June 28, 2020, 09:26:45 am »
They SHOULD be able to see them in the proper context.

They absolutely should be seen in a proper context.
"Never trust a man without a single redeeming vice" WSC

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Riots in the Twin Cities
« Reply #289 on: June 28, 2020, 11:28:30 am »
So, the tweet says PSEUDO trigger warning, not trigger warning.  And it's not that at all.
It's a trigger warning.

It's apologizing for printing the flag.  "Sorry if this offends you".  Please keep making excuses Michael.
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019

Offline MH

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Re: Riots in the Twin Cities
« Reply #290 on: June 29, 2020, 12:00:33 pm »
It's a trigger warning.

You are usually above:

1) Just replying with "no it's not"
2) Disputing things that are well-established


Professor McNally advises against them being overused but defines them as such: ", Richard McNally, a Professor of Psychology at Harvard University, noted that "Trigger warnings are designed to help survivors avoid reminders of their trauma, thereby preventing emotional discomfort. "


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It's apologizing for printing the flag.  "Sorry if this offends you".  Please keep making excuses Michael.

Right... I'm not excusing just doing my one-man war against dumbing-down everything so we can all enjoy the culture war together.

Be better, this-week-name-Graham...

Offline the_squid

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Re: Riots in the Twin Cities
« Reply #291 on: June 29, 2020, 08:42:36 pm »
Assuming the story is true, Having a warning because a story shows the Canadian flag has to be the absolute stupidest thing I’ve ever heard of.  Anyone who is “triggered” by that needs therapy to help them to NOT let that happen, rather than requiring the rest of society to coddle to their bizarre fears...
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Offline cybercoma

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Re: Riots in the Twin Cities
« Reply #292 on: June 30, 2020, 12:14:49 pm »
Soon enough MLK statues will be torn down because he was an adulterer and Gandhi statues are already being torn down because he was an anti-black racist while in South Africa.  And yet these are 2 of the greatest figures of the 20th century.

People have flaws.  Maybe all statues should be torn down, and we glorify deeds rather than people.  Except Terry Fox, he was too young to become corrupted yet.
You could take half a second to recognize that Confederates were fighting to keep black people enslaved. It's literally written out in their declarations. You could take half a second and realize that the majority of Confederate statues and monuments were put up during the Civil Rights Era as pushback against the rights of Black Americans. In that context, those monuments have absolutely no right to exist and are a symbol of violence and oppression.

But no, instead you double down with nonsensical slippery slope rhetoric that is absolutely meaningless to the discussion and a complete red herring. It's this kind of intellectual dishonesty that tries to masquerade as "debate" that needs to be stomped out. You're adding nothing of value to the discussion with this garbage.

Offline Gorgeous Graham

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Re: Riots in the Twin Cities
« Reply #293 on: June 30, 2020, 01:09:33 pm »
You could take half a second to recognize that Confederates were fighting to keep black people enslaved. It's literally written out in their declarations. You could take half a second and realize that the majority of Confederate statues and monuments were put up during the Civil Rights Era as pushback against the rights of Black Americans. In that context, those monuments have absolutely no right to exist and are a symbol of violence and oppression.

But no, instead you double down with nonsensical slippery slope rhetoric that is absolutely meaningless to the discussion and a complete red herring. It's this kind of intellectual dishonesty that tries to masquerade as "debate" that needs to be stomped out. You're adding nothing of value to the discussion with this garbage.

I'm not talking about Confederate Statues.  Those leaders fought to protect slavery and did nothing good. I have no problem with cities removing them, they should be taken down.  I'm talking about statues like George Washington, Winston Churchill, Sir John A etc.  They did a lot of good and their share of bad too.  So it's a question of where do we draw the line?  Because as I said, MLK and Gandhi did bad things too.  People are triggered by the Canadian and American flags. If you censor everything and everyone that has some bad in it, what are we left with?
"The economy has been relatively strong but Trudeau has chosen to run deficits year after year & has said will continue to do so well into the future.  This means we'll be in a worse & more vulnerable financial position when a recession hits when we HAVE to run deficits again." - Me, Oct. 3, 2019
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Offline the_squid

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Re: Riots in the Twin Cities
« Reply #294 on: June 30, 2020, 03:45:00 pm »
Fun fact:  First Nations in the area kept slaves.  Chief Maquinna had slaves, and has all sorts of things named after him.

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Maquinna is notable also for having kept European slaves on a number of occasions. The most detailed account is told in the writings of John R. Jewitt, one of two slaves kept for several years after the crew of the ship Boston was massacred by Maquinna and his men.
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Maquinna has been memorialized in various ways:

Maquinna Marine Provincial Park which contains Hot Springs Cove.
Maquinna Elementary School in Port Alberni.
Chief Maquinna Elementary School in Vancouver
Maquinna is an active submarine mud volcano located 16-18 kilometers west of Vancouver Island.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maquinna

So, is it the holding of slaves that is bad enough to get your statue ripped down and the street renamed?  Is the slave owning secondary to being a slave owner who was on the “winning side”?   Seems that owning slaves,in and of itself, isn’t enough to have the person deemed evil....  they had to have been the colonizers as well.

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First Nations of Canada routinely captured slaves from neighboring tribes. Slave-owning tribes were Muscogee Creek of Georgia, the Pawnee and Klamath, the Caribs of Dominica, the Tupinambá of Brazil, and some fishing societies, such as the Yurok, that lived along the coast from what is now Alaska to California.[95] The Haida, Nuu-chah-nulth, Tlingit, Coast Tsimshian and some other tribes who lived along the Pacific Northwest Coast were traditionally known as fierce warriors and slave-traders, raiding as far as California and also among neighboring people, particularly the Coast Salish groups. Slavery was hereditary, with new slaves generally being prisoners of war or captured for the purpose of trade and status. Among some Pacific Northwest tribes about a quarter of the population were slaves.[12][96][97]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_among_the_indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas#Indigenous_enslavement_of_indigenous_peoples
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Offline MH

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Re: Riots in the Twin Cities
« Reply #295 on: June 30, 2020, 05:15:02 pm »
Fun fact:  First Nations in the area kept slaves.  Chief Maquinna had slaves, and has all sorts of things named after him.
 

So, is it the holding of slaves that is bad enough to get your statue ripped down and the street renamed?   

Yeah, maybe.  Does that mean you are going to be in favour of removing statues now or is this more 'whataboutism' ?

Offline the_squid

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Re: Riots in the Twin Cities
« Reply #296 on: June 30, 2020, 05:25:28 pm »
Yeah, maybe.  Does that mean you are going to be in favour of removing statues now or is this more 'whataboutism' ?

I am all in favour of removing offensive statues, renaming landmarks.  I thought it was great when the statue got dumped into the ocean of the slave trader who was responsible for 10’s of thousands of deaths.  That statue should never have been erected in the first place. 

Explain to me what makes the wide practice of slavery for pre-contact First Nations any better than other slavery?  I think both were barbaric practices that dehumanized people.  One was based on skin colour and the other was based on “you’re not in our tribe”. 

How is what I said 'whataboutism'?

Personally, I don’t think we should celebrate slavers.  Maquinna’s name should be removed from the schools and parks, if that is our collective standard.